Suggestions for a fix

West Cork Paul

Man in a Shed
Subscriber
The NTC (negative temperature co-efficient) temperature sensor for our boiler has failed.

This thing
IMG_1590.webp


It became apparent something was up on Thursday evening as the water temp wasn’t very hot.

It’s a simple device. It’s inserted into a channel in the tank and as the resistance changes due to heat (10,000 ohm at 20c, decreasing as the temperature rises) the boiler gets a varying voltage back to it and thus knows whether or not it needs to heat up the water in the HW tank.

Having diagnosed the problem Friday morning, a trip to the nearest plumbers’ merchants (50 mins/50 km each way) was completely non productive,

“Nah, mate, we don’t do them, it’s electrical innit, you wanna go to the electric wholesalers”

Well, it may be an electrical component but it’s part and parcel of a domestic hot water system which you guys sell and fit.

“Yeah mate, but we don’t wire ‘em in, we get a sparky in to do that, it’s electrical innit, it’s dangerous, leccy and water don’t mix well”.

So, a further trip to the electrical wholesalers.

I explain what I need, only to be met with,

“Nah mate, it’s plumbing innit, we don’t do plumbing, we only have electrical stuff here.”

Oh FFS 😡. It’s a f&&king electrical component. It’s a simple NTC thermistor, starts at 10,000 ohm at room temp and the resistance decreases as the temp rises, you must have temperature probes/sensors like that, they’re used in all sorts of areas.

At which point someone with a bit more intellect comes out of the office to see what going on.

I explain precisely. I tell him it exactly how it works.

“Ah, yes, we have those” and sends the lackey off to the back of the storeroom.

Lacky returns with something approximating the original one in shape and size, charges me €13 and off I go, happy.

I get home, think I’ll just test it before connecting and fitting it.

The silly bugger has only given me a PTC thermistor that starts at 900 ohm and increase to 1500 ohm as the temp rises - fooking useless 😡.

So, as we’ve had no hot water since Thurs night, and as I’ve no resorted to ordering the part online but it won’t be here until Wed of next week, can anyone suggest how I might MacGyver a 10,000 ohm resistance to put into the circuit until the boiler has heated the tank full of water and I can disconnect it.

I dont like cold showers 😟.
 
The NTC (negative temperature co-efficient) temperature sensor for our boiler has failed.

This thing
View attachment 144328

It became apparent something was up on Thursday evening as the water temp wasn’t very hot.

It’s a simple device. It’s inserted into a channel in the tank and as the resistance changes due to heat (10,000 ohm at 20c, decreasing as the temperature rises) the boiler gets a varying voltage back to it and thus knows whether or not it needs to heat up the water in the HW tank.

Having diagnosed the problem Friday morning, a trip to the nearest plumbers’ merchants (50 mins/50 km each way) was completely non productive,

“Nah, mate, we don’t do them, it’s electrical innit, you wanna go to the electric wholesalers”

Well, it may be an electrical component but it’s part and parcel of a domestic hot water system which you guys sell and fit.

“Yeah mate, but we don’t wire ‘em in, we get a sparky in to do that, it’s electrical innit, it’s dangerous, leccy and water don’t mix well”.

So, a further trip to the electrical wholesalers.

I explain what I need, only to be met with,

“Nah mate, it’s plumbing innit, we don’t do plumbing, we only have electrical stuff here.”

Oh FFS 😡. It’s a f&&king electrical component. It’s a simple NTC thermistor, starts at 10,000 ohm at room temp and the resistance decreases as the temp rises, you must have temperature probes/sensors like that, they’re used in all sorts of areas.

At which point someone with a bit more intellect comes out of the office to see what going on.

I explain precisely. I tell him it exactly how it works.

“Ah, yes, we have those” and sends the lackey off to the back of the storeroom.

Lacky returns with something approximating the original one in shape and size, charges me €13 and off I go, happy.

I get home, think I’ll just test it before connecting and fitting it.

The silly bugger has only given me a PTC thermistor that starts at 900 ohm and increase to 1500 ohm as the temp rises - fooking useless 😡.

So, as we’ve had no hot water since Thurs night, and as I’ve no resorted to ordering the part online but it won’t be here until Wed of next week, can anyone suggest how I might MacGyver a 10,000 ohm resistance to put into the circuit until the boiler has heated the tank full of water and I can disconnect it.

I dont like cold showers 😟.
Send me your address and I'll pop two (spare) in the post today with some wagos.
Corrosion is the typical cause of failure.
 
3k3 resistor would fool the system that it is 57°C
A 3.3k ohm resistor has a color code of orange, orange, red, and gold.
The first two bands represent the digits, the third band is the multiplier, and the fourth band indicates the tolerance.
Set your hot water to 60°C for an hour or so.... keeping an eye on the real water temperature, then reduce to 50....saves disconnecting and the associated fault .
 
Last edited:
Send me your address and I'll pop two (spare) in the post today with some wagos.
Corrosion is the typical cause of failure.

That’s very kind of you, thank you.

The one(s) I’ve ordered - plural because they come in a pack of 3 via Amazon (only cost £5.68*) should be here Wednesday - hopefully 🤞

Anything you post will get detained at customs, until I pay VAT on it before it’s released and will take 7-10 days to get here - Brexit.

FYI the standard temp for the resistance reading is 25°C, do you have any other temperature readings, just to make sure you get the right curve
Q: What is the resistance at 85°C?

According to Worcester Baxi its starts at 10,000 ohm at room temperature - I assumed 20c and decreases. It doesn’t quite say what it decreases to 😕.

I don’t have any resistors on hand else I’d have played around with them too. Ive ordered an assortment now - Amazon again.

It was suggested a pencil could be used as the resistor. It actually works but I could only get 1000 ohm, at which point I’m guessing g the boiler will think it’s done its job and switch off.

* Amazon, in their wisdom, have created a .ie website earlier this year. Great, saves ordering from the .co.uk site one would think. However, even if you’re a Prime member/subscriber, you have to spend €25 before you get free next day delivery from Amazon.ie, yet, order from the .co.uk site and there’s no minimum spend for free delivery. Guess where I’m still ordering from? And I’d wager I’m not alone.
 
That’s very kind of you, thank you.

The one(s) I’ve ordered - plural because they come in a pack of 3 via Amazon (only cost £5.68*) should be here Wednesday - hopefully 🤞

Anything you post will get detained at customs, until I pay VAT on it before it’s released and will take 7-10 days to get here - Brexit.



According to Worcester Baxi its starts at 10,000 ohm at room temperature - I assumed 20c and decreases. It doesn’t quite say what it decreases to 😕.

I don’t have any resistors on hand else I’d have played around with them too. Ive ordered an assortment now - Amazon again.

It was suggested a pencil could be used as the resistor. It actually works but I could only get 1000 ohm, at which point I’m guessing g the boiler will think it’s done its job and switch off.

* Amazon, in their wisdom, have created a .ie website earlier this year. Great, saves ordering from the .co.uk site one would think. However, even if you’re a Prime member/subscriber, you have to spend €25 before you get free next day delivery from Amazon.ie, yet, order from the .co.uk site and there’s no minimum spend for free delivery. Guess where I’m still ordering from? And I’d wager I’m not alone.
If Ireland left the EU too then it would make life easier on that front.
 
That’s very kind of you, thank you.

The one(s) I’ve ordered - plural because they come in a pack of 3 via Amazon (only cost £5.68*) should be here Wednesday - hopefully 🤞

Anything you post will get detained at customs, until I pay VAT on it before it’s released and will take 7-10 days to get here - Brexit.



According to Worcester Baxi its starts at 10,000 ohm at room temperature - I assumed 20c and decreases. It doesn’t quite say what it decreases to 😕.

I don’t have any resistors on hand else I’d have played around with them too. Ive ordered an assortment now - Amazon again.

It was suggested a pencil could be used as the resistor. It actually works but I could only get 1000 ohm, at which point I’m guessing g the boiler will think it’s done its job and switch off.

* Amazon, in their wisdom, have created a .ie website earlier this year. Great, saves ordering from the .co.uk site one would think. However, even if you’re a Prime member/subscriber, you have to spend €25 before you get free next day delivery from Amazon.ie, yet, order from the .co.uk site and there’s no minimum spend for free delivery. Guess where I’m still ordering from? And I’d wager I’m not alone.
In the service manual for your boiler, it would have given a small table of values... I'm sure they are using the most common curve.
I've about 600 thermistors in stock, in Bead and Copper jacket format. Just a tip, use a small amount of heat sink compound when you insert it in the receiver or clip it to a pipe... increases the thermocoupling and reduces time lag in readings. Probably more critical in our game than a boiler.

Anyone else reading this you can just Wago / terminal block replacement sensors on the wires to the circuit board. Don't worry about polarity or high voltage... typically the wires are at 0-5vdc or -24 to +24 at the most. Its not like a thermocouple that has a critical contact to ensure accuracy.

1754835226614.webp

Ohms on the left. Note the log scale there.
 
In the service manual for your boiler, it would have given a small table of values... I'm sure they are using the most common curve.
I've about 600 thermistors in stock, in Bead and Copper jacket format. Just a tip, use a small amount of heat sink compound when you insert it in the receiver or clip it to a pipe... increases the thermocoupling and reduces time lag in readings. Probably more critical in our game than a boiler.

Anyone else reading this you can just Wago / terminal block replacement sensors on the wires to the circuit board. Don't worry about polarity or high voltage... typically the wires are at 0-5vdc or -24 to +24 at the most. Its not like a thermocouple that has a critical contact to ensure accuracy.

View attachment 144348
Ohms on the left. Note the log scale there.
I’ve only got the installation manual and the user/owner’s manual. 😕

Edit, the installation manual is also the service manual but there’s no mention of resistance values for the DHW tank temp sensor.

Worcester Bosch Greenstar i30 with an Elson Zircon 300ltr indirect pressurised HW tank.
 
Last edited:
I’ve only got the installation manual and the user/owner’s manual. 😕

Edit, the installation manual is also the service manual but there’s no mention of resistance values for the DHW tank temp sensor.

Worcester Bosch Greenstar i30 with an Elson Zircon 300ltr indirect pressurised HW tank.
Oh crickey.. not one of those!!!
Only joking, I now about as much about boilers as I do about women.. just the bare basics...
 
It’s fixed 👌🏼

The new 1.90£ thermistor arrived, no postage charges, connected it to the 2wires coming through the wall from the boiler and pushed it into the hot water tank. I did test its resistance readings first just in case. Straight away the boiler fires up and runs on its DHW cycle and within 30 mins we have 300ltrs of hot water again. All is tickety boo with the world once more. 👍🏼
 
Back
Top Bottom