Japanese bikes

Gimlet

Gimlet

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I've just realised that I haven't owned a Japanese bike since 1996. I've looked through the big four's current models and there isn't a single one that does anything for me, with the possible exception of an MT10SP. And only then because if forced to own am I/L four, that's the only one from any manufacturer, Japanese or otherwise, that would interest me (basically I like the engine but not the rest of the bike).

I'm not anti-Japan in any way. I like nearly all things Japanese: the people, the country, the food, and I trust Japanese engineering above almost all other. But bikes from the land of the rising sun seem to leave me cold and I don't really know why.
There's a few I'd like to like. Yamaha's XSR 900's; Suzuki's GSX nakeds; Honda's Transalp and Africa Twins; Kwak's H2 derivatives. But somehow when I see them in the metal they don't register. At bike meets it's the British, European and American bikes (must test ride an Indian FTR) that draw my eye. The Jap stuff I just walk past.
Are they too "safe" - in performance and styling? Too plasticky? Maybe they give off too much of a corporate whiff. I think there's a hint of that but I'm not sure.

I've had a few Triumphs, Ducatis, KTMs, even a Harley now. Very nearly bought a BMW but veered to KTM at the last minute. I will probably buy more of each before my time is up. I quite fancy a Guzzi or two, and as above, the Indian FTR is interesting, even though I can't think of a good reason to have one. I just want to ride one to see what it's like.

I'm very open minded with bikes. I'd happily have a Harley bagger and a sports bike in the garage at the same time and ride them both and not care what anyone else thinks. I'll test ride anything from supermotos to full dress tourers at dealer open days just out of interest, even if I've got neither the money nor the inclination to buy them. I've never written off any bike off as crap without riding it. I don't look down my nose at other people's choice of bike and I'm not a badge snob. But somehow Japanese bikes just don't invoke the curiosity that I feel they should.

Does anyone else find this?
 
It comes down to character, and Japanese bikes seem to lack it (with the odd exception).

Rightly or wrongly, Italian and British bikes are seen to have more of it as a trade off against reliability. I forgive my Triumph for niggles that woud piss me off on a BMW, because it's got character. I have limited riding time - I don't want to spend it on something that doesn't excite me.
 
Hugo Magnus said:
I bought a new V-Strom 650 in 2013 I'm amazed at how it keeps going despite the abuse. The s/h DR-Z that I've owned since 2013 is still going strong too.
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That's what I mean. The Japs make good solid reliable bikes. But why don't I want any of them?

There's a chap at a bike meet I often go to on a Sunday who has a new 1050 V-Strom. It's bright, almost lime yellow with a blue seat (echoing the old 800 DR Big). If he described it to me over the phone I'd think it sounded hideous, but in the metal it looks really smart and surprisingly classy and grown up, not just a daft styling exercise. It also looks extremely well built. But I don't cluster round it and scrutinize the details or get the urge to throw a leg over it and ride it, which I generally do with bikes that draw my eye and which I can see are obvious quality.

As above, I'm not anti-Jap, quite the opposite. And I'm not a badge snob (I've owned a Harley and would have another).
 
Exige said:
Royal Enfields are good with abuse 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨, if not a little stubborn 🤷‍♂️
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Meanwhile, at the Enfield factory...


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Gimlet said:
That's what I mean. The Japs make good solid reliable bikes. But why don't I want any of them?

There's a chap at a bike meet I often go to on a Sunday who has a new 1050 V-Strom. It's bright, almost lime yellow with a blue seat (echoing the old 800 DR Big). If he described it to me over the phone I'd think it sounded hideous, but in the metal it looks really smart and surprisingly classy and grown up, not just a daft styling exercise. It also looks extremely well built. But I don't cluster round it and scrutinize the details or get the urge to throw a leg over it and ride it, which I generally do with bikes that draw my eye and which I can see are obvious quality.

As above, I'm not anti-Jap, quite the opposite. And I'm not a badge snob (I've owned a Harley and would have another).
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I `m in agreement with pretty much everything you have said about Jap bikes, the slightly agricultural feel of Ducati and Moto Guzzi bikes are the only ones that really tempt me on a regular basis. That said I have ridden a Suzuki SV650 which was surprisingly enjoyable and also a v twin. Perhaps halfway from Japan to Europe if that makes sense. The 1050 V Strom is a bike I`d be tempted to try for that reason and the slightly smaller 1000 that preceded it is on my list for a possible Winter Hack this year.
 
Dukesox said:
I `m in agreement with pretty much everything you have said about Jap bikes, the slightly agricultural feel of Ducati and Moto Guzzi bikes are the only ones that really tempt me on a regular basis. That said I have ridden a Suzuki SV650 which was surprisingly enjoyable and also a v twin. Perhaps halfway from Japan to Europe if that makes sense. The 1050 V Strom is a bike I`d be tempted to try for that reason and the slightly smaller 1000 that preceded it is on my list for a possible Winter Hack this year.
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I was given an SV650 as a loan bike a few years when the dealer had my 1290 Superduke in for a service. Having just got off the 1290 I was bitterly disappointed with the sight of that little Suzuki. I regarded it purely as transport. I wasn't looking forward at all to the ride home and wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible, shove the Suzuki in the garage and leave it there until my bike was ready.
In fact, by the time I'd got halfway I was taking detours and seeking out back roads just to enjoy the bike and spend more time with it.

I assumed it would feel as flat as a fart after the KTM, but it wasn't. It wasn't anything like as powerful, obviously, but it certainly wasn't dull or slow.
It had bags of character, far more torque than I was expecting and overall it had a cheerful engaging personality that made me want to keep riding it. handled very well too. I was almost (almost..) sorry to give it back.

But it looked awful and felt very cheaply built, and it was far from comfortable. It gave me the impression of a great engine bolted to a souless bike built by passionless accountants. Maybe that's the problem
 
Dukesox said:
I `m in agreement with pretty much everything you have said about Jap bikes, the slightly agricultural feel of Ducati and Moto Guzzi bikes are the only ones that really tempt me on a regular basis. That said I have ridden a Suzuki SV650 which was surprisingly enjoyable and also a v twin. Perhaps halfway from Japan to Europe if that makes sense. The 1050 V Strom is a bike I`d be tempted to try for that reason and the slightly smaller 1000 that preceded it is on my list for a possible Winter Hack this year.
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I've yet to own a Guzzi. I'm very tempted by an 850 V7 as a back road Sunday bike.

And that's the thing. If I wanted a cheap cheerful and competent fun bike just for bimbling, a Guzzi immediately attracts my attention, where any number of equally good Japanese alternatives just don't.

I like the idea of just "owning" a Guzzi, whatever it's like. I don't get the same intrigue from the Japs, even when on paper many might be a better bet.
 
The last Japanese bike I owned was murdered by a twot in a Vauxhall Astra in 1996. It was a Yam XJ900F and I had an unfeasibly good time on that bike. A capable touring bike and for scratching, it was a game soul. More oomph than handling, which made for a lot of fun and some hair-raising moments. I loved that bike.

Since then, after about six years bikeless, I have had two Ducatis and a TVS. I've ridden a variety of Japanese bikes in the time, loaners from the dealer where my Ducs were serviced. The ones I remember were, Varadero 1000 (couldn't stop laughing on it), V-Strom 650 (CSLOI), a GSXR 750 (Gordon BENNETT that thing was fast and smooth, 150mph on the dual carriageway before I was even aware I was speeding), a GSXR600 (hated it so much!). I was once given a Monster as a loaner, I laughed even harder than I did on the Varadero. I also test-rode the Suz SV650 when I was thinking of ditching my Duc 750ieS. The experience (or lack of one) led to me keeping my 750.

I don't want a bike with a lot of gadgetry so options are limited these days.
 
Gimlet said:
That's what I mean. The Japs make good solid reliable bikes. But why don't I want any of them?

There's a chap at a bike meet I often go to on a Sunday who has a new 1050 V-Strom. It's bright, almost lime yellow with a blue seat (echoing the old 800 DR Big). If he described it to me over the phone I'd think it sounded hideous, but in the metal it looks really smart and surprisingly classy and grown up, not just a daft styling exercise. It also looks extremely well built. But I don't cluster round it and scrutinize the details or get the urge to throw a leg over it and ride it, which I generally do with bikes that draw my eye and which I can see are obvious quality.

As above, I'm not anti-Jap, quite the opposite. And I'm not a badge snob (I've owned a Harley and would have another).
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Yep I get it, once again it's horses for courses. You need a good selection of bikes for different applications.
 
I think Jap bikes are like Jap cars, ultimately reliable, competent at everything but lacking the soul of, say, a Fiat Panda.

Although I consider my Ducati to be more reliable than my Honda :unsure:
 
Gimlet said:
I've yet to own a Guzzi. I'm very tempted by an 850 V7 as a back road Sunday bike.

And that's the thing. If I wanted a cheap cheerful and competent fun bike just for bimbling, a Guzzi immediately attracts my attention, where any number of equally good Japanese alternatives just don't.

I like the idea of just "owning" a Guzzi, whatever it's like. I don't get the same intrigue from the Japs, even when on paper many might be a better bet.
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I`ve ridden a 750 V7 and was a little disappointed, it was unremarkable in every way . It is the only Guzzi I`ve ever ridden that I didn`t like. The 850 may be a big leap forward but I`ve yet to try.
 
Alan Williams said:
Are we only talking about new jap bikes ?
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Yes. Or current ones anyway. But now you mention it I don't really have a hankering for a classic Jap either, though there's several vintage Brits I'd like to own.

But that maybe because the 1970's and 80's Jap iron I owned back in the day were aging all-so-rans because that was all I could afford at the time, not because I particularly wanted them. So I don't feel any nostalgia for them.
If I'd be able to buy a brand new GS1000, Z1 or CBX1000 when they came out it would be a different matter I'm sure
 
Dukesox said:
I`ve ridden a 750 V7 and was a little disappointed, it was unremarkable in every way . It is the only Guzzi I`ve ever ridden that I didn`t like. The 850 may be a big leap forward but I`ve yet to try.
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I've heard several people say that. I think the 850 is the bike the 750 always should have been. I'd like to try one. A sort of Italian Bonneville but a lot cheaper.
 
Gimlet said:
Yes. Or current ones anyway. But now you mention it I don't really have a hankering for a classic Jap either, though there's several vintage Brits I'd like to own.

But that maybe because the 1970's and 80's Jap iron I owned back in the day were aging all-so-rans because that was all I could afford at the time, not because I particularly wanted them. So I don't feel any nostalgia for them.
If I'd be able to buy a brand new GS1000, Z1 or CBX1000 when they came out it would be a different matter I'm sure
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I can think of a good few old british bikes I'd like to own (some again). :unsure:

Only japanese bikes I'd like to (re)own would be two strokes - RGV250 / 500 etc.
 
Alan Williams said:
I can think of a good few old british bikes I'd like to own (some again). :unsure:

Only japanese bikes I'd like to (re)own would be two strokes - RGV250 / 500 etc.
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Yes, I'd agree with that. I only ever owned learner 2 strokes. All my bigger bikes were 4 strokes. But I do have a certain something for the bigger air-cooled Jap smokers.
I never had one but I've always fancied a Suzuki T500, or a GT 550.

Something lie this would be nice...
Suzuki T500 Gt500 cafe racer Titan
 
I cannot help here, except to slag off Jap bikes. They just don't do it for me. KTM and Ducati are the ones, according to my strange reasoning. And this is just an excuse to post a picture of a Monster that it in my clipboard, I am going to Riders next week and this is there!
1729015845462.webp
 
Loz said:
I don't want a bike with a lot of gadgetry so options are limited these days.
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I agree. Though the Europeans seem to be worse than the Japanese for loading superfluous electrickery, with KTM and Ducati leading the field and BMW and Triumph not far behind them.

Though oddly, my Rocket 3 has very little. ABS, cruise control, TC and that's about it. And you can turn them all off.

Talking of the XJ900 (I desperately wanted one back in the day) one Jap I've always like is the FZ1 Fazer, but the gen 2 pre 2010 ones with the half fairing, not the later ones which looked hideous in that transfomery sort of way the Japanese are so keen on.
That generation of Jap bikes included some genuine good lookers. It seems to be in the last few years that it's all gon wrong.
 
Always makes me gag when people talk about jap bikes having no soul! Bikes dont have soul FFS, you either like them or you dont.
Last couple of triumphs I rode were the most boring bikes for the money IMO. As was my mates Transalp. I would however love to try a current Africa twin, RS765 Striple, MT10SP(a given) and streety v2…
 
Laava said:
Always makes me gag when people talk about jap bikes having no soul! Bikes dont have soul FFS, you either like them or you dont.
Last couple of triumphs I rode were the most boring bikes for the money IMO. As was my mates Transalp. I would however love to try a current Africa twin, RS765 Striple, MT10SP(a given) and streety v2…
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You haven't driven a Fiat Panda have you :unsure: :ROFLMAO:
 
I’ve owned quite a few Jap bikes and still have a couple. Haven’t had an IL4 for a long time though. I think that engine is a factor in the soulless yet perfectly capable category. The V4 in my VFR800fi is very good in my humble opinion. Equally the other Jap bike I have is the RGV250 so again not boring for me. As for gadgetry the newest bike I currently own is a 12 year old air cooled panzer GS. No ABS, auto blipper, quick shifter, traction control etc. Just heated grips and analogue dials. I’m sure a lot of folk wouldn’t buy a bike nowadays unless they can pair their phone to the tft screen to stream their music as they ride. Each to their own.
Like @Dukesox I wasn’t blown away by the Guzzi V7 750 either. It looked nice but wasn’t particularly good at anything. Sold it quite quickly.
 
Laava said:
Always makes me gag when people talk about jap bikes having no soul! Bikes dont have soul FFS, you either like them or you dont.
Last couple of triumphs I rode were the most boring bikes for the money IMO. As was my mates Transalp. I would however love to try a current Africa twin, RS765 Striple, MT10SP(a given) and streety v2…
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Perhaps soul is the wrong word and character is more appropriate in the same way that a 400 year old thatched cottage might be described as characterful.
There is no doubt in my mind that things like the heavy engine braking and low RPM lumpiness are part of the character of bikes like your S4R and Fugly @Laava and that is definitely what is absent from IL4s which covers a huge % of Japanese bikes. Each to his/her/their own of course, some people love the super smoothness of an IL4.
 
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