A sobering watch

I had a near miss in very similar circumstances in my first year of biking when an old codger in a Morris Traveller turned right across my path. Fortunately I managed to just avoid it. But for the grace of God!
 
I think most of us have been there at one point,have had a few near misses myself.Very sad indeed no fault what so ever on the motorcyclist.
 
Had he been even near the speed limit he would have been visible for 8-9 seconds and probably been able to stop as you get a sixth sense about what is going to happen even before it happens in these sorts of cases.
Dont get me wrong i have a ton of sympathy for the guy but you ride defensively or you take your chances, Saying it was the other guys fault when you are dead is little compensation. 97mph across a T junction ? and the guy says "no fault what so ever on the motorcyclist." ?
 
Dont get me wrong i have a ton of sympathy for the guy but you ride defensively or you take your chances, Saying it was the other guys fault when you are dead is little compensation. 97mph across a T junction ? and the guy says "no fault what so ever on the motorcyclist." ?
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I completely agree. I think the family have released the video because they want people to think about these kind of situations. No doubt at all that he was riding too fast for the road. If the driver of the car making the turn didn't see him in 4 seconds of clear view, I'm not sure any amount of time would have helped. But as you point out, the time would have helped the rider react and possibly reduce the consequences of the accident.
 
I suppose the argument would be that he might have seen him with 4 seconds to go but naturally assumed he had at least 8-9 seconds to cross the junction. I doubt many people can gage the speed of a narrow fronted bike travelling near 100mph from the front, i think the speed becomes more obvious as the bike gets nearer/ passes, who knows its very sad either way not just fore the biker but the guy that has to live with his mistake as well.
My feeling is if we all looked at that video without knowing what was going to happen, most of us would have had a heart in their mouth moment just seeing the car there before it even started to move....I know i did. Even now in my car or on a bike i look for that eye contact in those situations before my foot stops hovering over the brake.
 
50/50....
going at that speed and overtaking a car with a junction approaching so soon?
As David's Mother says she wants motorcyclists to slow down (and in this case give more time to react and avoid the hazard).
But then again the car driver turning across the path, how could they not have seen the bike (or even apparently the car David overtook) approaching...regardless of whatever speed it was travelling?
As David's Mother says, she wan's car drivers to spend more time looking or checking for bikes!


ducatipaddy said:
I doubt many people can gage the speed of a narrow fronted bike travelling near 100mph from the front, i think the speed becomes more obvious as the bike gets nearer/ passes, who knows
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Yes the speed gets a lot easier to judge the closer it gets, but its a lot more complicated than that and you might be surprised that a hell of a lot of people can, and very accurately, can judge the speed of a fast moving small vehicle (especially if they are exposed to it a lot, ie driving at speed themselves).

Its called Binoccular (or visual) Disparity and relies on the ability of the eyes/brain to calculate the speed of an object moving towards you by judging how quickly it changes in size from one moment to another. The bigger the object, the easier it is to calculate its speed if it is going fast as it as the changes in size are more obvious. Especially if there are two points relatively far apart on the vehicle (eg a trucks headlights) that get further and further apart from each other as it gets closer.
But, as you say motorbikes present a problem due to their very small size....when you have to make a fast decision.
Also apparently this causes a problem with unmanned level crossings in America with trains with only one light on the front....lots of accidents at night because people try to beat the train across but can't accurately judge their speed.
However, if you sit and give it a bit of time it becomes easier to judge (as the object has got closer).
So if in doubt...wait and see!

Interestingly enought the ability to use binoccular disparity to judge a vehicles speed is MAJORLY underdeveloped in children all the way up to late teens....which is why speed limits around schools are so reduced

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0190msm

This ability also reduces as you get elderly......and also some people just can't grasp the skill at all.
One of the reasons I think a lot of people are on the road with a valid car licence that actually shouldnt be, and that a speed judgement test should be part of the driving test AS WELL AS an eyesight test.
 
Interesting Robbie. I didnt see that program but i did see one on DAVE i think, possibly Dara O briains maths program on a similar thing.
At the risk of dissecting this too far i calculate at 100mph he was travelling at near 150ft per second so over 4 seconds he would have travelled near 600ft or 200yds. Again would a motorist see a bike 200yds away from the front against a much slower moving car (that he had just overtaken)
The fact is you and Milo are right and the Police and courts agree with you and so do i come to that :) its just the comment "no fault what so ever on the motorcyclist." i think is odd.

"One of the reasons I think a lot of people are on the road with a valid car licence that actually shouldn't be" ..........yes and this is the reason we have draconian speed limits. unfortunately in this country we don't demand a safe std of driving, we simply move the bar to the lowest common denominator.
Where i live i am 1/2 mile from the famous Box Hill, an age old haunt for bikers. Many will remember the approach is a duel carriage way that for many years had a sign up that said Deceptive bends, the group 10cc had a recording studio in the town and called one of their albums "deceptive bends", Unfortunately while thousands of motorists managed to negotiate these bends daily once every 2 -3 months one would come along who couldn't. solution ?? close one lane of the duel carriage way completely and hatch it off.. Reduce the risks not by educating the driver but by penalising tens of thousands of others.
strange country we live in but then this is why Germans have unlimited autobahns and the Swiss all own assault riffles by law....we are all a bit odd over here..
 
Absolutely on the money Robbie.

It's all about improving perception.. Might sound unrelated but I've been a falconer for nearly 17 years. Myself and other falconers can pick out a bird silhouette far quicker than the layman. It's practice and heightened awareness.

Similarly, as motorcyclists, broadly speaking our hazard perception is above average due to the fact we're (hopefully ) aware that there is no bubble round about us. Not blaming the car owner, but we also don't know what may have distracted them, (stereo fiddling, texting, pedestrian catching their attention ) if at all.

What I have noticed in my 30k mls a year in a van that I can generally see into peoples cars is that people are using mobile phones more than ever. They just hold it at the bottom of the steering wheel and you can see their head looking down and up while they do whatever on it... Oh and don't start me on the abandonment of indicators by nearly everyone and Audi drivers......tailgating experts...

G
 
Thanks for posting Miles - it is indeed a tough watch we all have opinions I'm sure from speed, overtaking where he did - one hand controlling at speed to say thanks etc.. and I'm sure there's that nagging thought that we've all done things that could have ended spectacularly bad if not for the grace of your chosen deity.

The bit that i can't stop thinking on this, is when you put yourself into that position - i don't want my last words to be 'oh no'

If nothing else it reminds me of how vulnerable i am when out - some one told me ages ago when i was learning - just pretend everyone else is trying to kill you and ride accordingly.....
 
Co-incidental but relevant. We were talking at work about danger perception - motorcyclists aren't perceived as a danger by car drivers so they are ignored. I showed them a pic of a Duc stuffed into a car apparently killing the driver and passenger. I pointed out that an experienced motorcyclist on seeing he WILL crash can be cool headed enough to pick the point of impact to mitigate the consequences. I then pointed out that failing that evil @@@@@@@s like me will try to take the driver with me. This mind set is completely alien to my Norwegian workmates and caused quite a stir. Now they understand that bikes can be a danger and in a small way my world will be a tad less dangerous.

Word will hopefully get around.
 
Sorry but i cant imagine wanting to "take the driver with me" whatever the situation. I just do not carry that sort of hate on tap and neither should you to be honest. No wonder you Norwegian friends were horrified !!
 
Reminds me of what happened to TWPD (Nigel): the circumstances appear much the same. A lot of third-party blame was apportioned there too. But hazard perception is more a function of the brain than the senses. If you ride at these kinds of speeds with little conscious regard to the myriad tell-tale clues & danger signs, you could have the eyes of a hawk and still come to grief. What's more, blaming the other guy is futile. It's your life you're guarding; if you wish it to continue - take responsibility for it!

Steve

ps. Sorry to rant, but as an instructor of twenty-five years I've faced excusitis on a daily basis.
 
o k , i haven't read the last posts, apart from the 97 mph bit, i will stick up for motorcyclists/bikers, and sad for everyone envolved, but when one gets near a junction, well me anyway , am no takin any chances wi motorists, who are not on the same wavelength, so i totally slow down, its too risky.. the both parties as robbie suggests are at fault, but the biker guy ? any biker guy has to realise the motor person isn't in the zone, I've seen and read these things before, the guy was going to fast at a junction… saying, nat
 
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