Advanced Training

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mad Dash
  • Start date Start date
Its not really that usefull.

What difference is there to knowing the stopping distance? would that make you brake earlier / later?

Markers? It matters not a jot what they mark, but more that you know what the object is.

Lets face it. How many of us know the road signs we see every day? Not many I would think.

But you 'know' how to behave in most instances.

Ian
 
I disagree Fergie.

Taking the tests gives an indication of your knowledge of the roads signs/markings. The more you know the better you can read the road, junctions, hazards etc. Every sign post and road marking costs money that councils wouldn't spend unless they had to. Justification normally comes with accidents, injuries and deaths.

As far as advanced rider techiques, why do IAM chaps and lasses get reduced insurance if it means nothing????

Small investment in time and money that I am seriously thinking about. To dismiss it as not mattering smacks of arrogance...
 
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Perspective time boys, Paul is right Fergie is wrong, but I can see his point. Advanced riding is a SET of advanced skills which are honed over a number of years. I too had Fergies approach when I did my Gold Star on a Gpz 750 many years ago. Being led by a traffic cop, I questioned the training, the result, the traffic cop gave me a "free ride" :eek: , go as fast as you want and outdrive me - a Gpz 750 against some Honda Silverwing thing.... the Silverwing thing tanned my arse, becuase this boy could DRIVE !!!! Advanced riding is not just about answering questions, it's about ROADCRAFT, and the fact you can't see it's advantages, well that's a worry :D :D No need to get arsey about it, but advanced riding is worth the time/money effort. It's then just rider choice if you do it - I have elected to do it.
 
you'll also note Fergie has not notified us of his score, that's becuase he did :comp1: after he got a "walter" (4 4 2) :D we'll discuss it over beer :drunk:
 
What difference is there to knowing the stopping distance? would that make you brake earlier / later?

The stopping distance basically lets you know how fast you can go on the open road but don't just use the figures from the highway code they are typical stopping distances. Get on your bike and find a quiet straight level section of road and brake firmly at various speeds so you know your actual stopping distance. There's not enough room to write on here about cornering but as you approach a bend you can accelerate until you reach the point where you are no longer able to stop on your own side of the road then you can decelerate until the limit point moves away quickly and you are able to stop on your own side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear. This will give you the correct speed for the corner. It's very difficult to learn about it from books etc you really need to see it being done.

I know not many of us know road signs but these wee red things are life savers. You should try to know exactly what they mean. But a good rider should be able to anticipate the hazard before they can read the sign. If you see a farm in the your middle distance on the left then there must be a road into that farm so try to follow a hedge line from the farm to the road. Usually there will be mud and debris there. Hopefully you'll pick that out before you see the warning sign of the junction. If you've passed ten bends and your accelerating towards another one and you can see a warning sign in the bend but it's too far away to read it chances are it warning you of that bend, so this one will be more servere than the last ten so be sure you read the limit point on it. If you come out the bend saying I could have gone faster then so what. But if you go into the bend thinking oh dear...

Some IAM groups can be strange (I' not in one myself.) I guess you just need to find a good instructor.
 
We can debate this until the cows come home (reading the dangers of the farm ahead of course :D ) But the bottom line is advanced training makes you a better and safer rider, and better and safer riders USUALLY live longer. Having spent all that money on a D16RR, I'm all for enjoying it. One thing we have missed, and Fergie IS BIG on this (that's why I can't understand his reluctance on training) is CLOTHING. He suits and boots with back protectors etc etc for every ride, and this is VITAL. Even as recent as Saturday, I wore paddock boots and jeans to collect the D16RR - I know it's WRONG, I KNOW !!!!! On a run, it's full kit. On Saturday I passed 2 R1's at Aberfoyle - jeans and trainers... RUNNING IN the D16RR, they passed me further down the road (120mph ++) see you in the skin graft unit boys...
I know this will stir a reaction, but I think further training should be compulsory (maybe not advanced, but FURTHER) and wearing proper gear too.... trousers, gloves, jackets - they make us wear an approved crash helmet - there is no point in protecting the head if the rest of the body has been mashed.
 
IAM Glasgow North meet every Wednesday night 6.30pm at MacDonalds Restaurant, which I think is on CrowRoad. Not sure of the joinng fee etc.etc but well worth going to, yes there is the odd observer who can be frustrating, but if you want to improve your riding its a must.
alternatively contact them via email: admin@iamglasgow.org, cause although I know how to get there, I may have the street name wrong!
 
I did Bikesafe last year (voluntarily) and am going again soon, with a view to IAM qualification this summer. I ride a lot and quite quickly, but was possibly aware that I was "fostering" old, bad habits. It turned out I wasn't too bad at all :D but another course should be a good starter point to do the training and test. It's too easy to become complacent.

I was out with Widerider today for a forty mile round trip to get his new tyre fitted. It was clear (he hasn't been out much this year) that he was steady and controlled, but in a not convincing way, more of a "oh @@@@, this is all so strange sort of way". I'm going to try and convince him to come and have a go with me at the IAM stuff.
 
signs and stuff

scored 2 --jings hivvens help ma boab, 7 and 8 in the three sections.

Having read my highway code to find out where i went wrong one thing jumps out --- road signs, cats eyes and stuff are all self evident when seen in the context of being out on a road --i am certain that if i had done the highway code test bit out in a road environment my score would have been much higher.
As i tend to ride and drive out on the road rather than in front of my pc i think i will settle for that.
As far as braking distances go --surely the two second rule covers every situation.
That does not mean i am sure my riding/driving standards are way below where they could be --just to put my comments in context.
 
Jings, Crivvens, I thought it was.... :D Anyway, I think I have my advanced thing sorted - BEST rider training. Not only a very professional organsiation, but a customer of ours too - job done. BEST Rider Training on 01501 825666 or www.bestridertraining.com ask for Bruce. :D
 
pc murdoch

Glad to see we have so many broons experts on the site !!
Must remember to bring my pail to the next SDC meeting.
 
phlyfifer said:
Glad to see we have so many broons experts on the site !!
Must remember to bring my pail to the next SDC meeting.
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oh dear, the pail was Oor Wullie :D :D red dungarees with Ducati Corse on the front on order :eek:
 
PaulV said:
I disagree Fergie.

Taking the tests gives an indication of your knowledge of the roads signs/markings. The more you know the better you can read the road, junctions, hazards etc. Every sign post and road marking costs money that councils wouldn't spend unless they had to. Justification normally comes with accidents, injuries and deaths.

As far as advanced rider techiques, why do IAM chaps and lasses get reduced insurance if it means nothing????

Small investment in time and money that I am seriously thinking about. To dismiss it as not mattering smacks of arrogance...
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Arrogance? That has got to do with it?

I'm not saying anything that is covered by that word? I also never said that i know it all and am the font of all knowledge!

My feelings are that on the road there are obvious signs, signals, hazards and the like. These things are in abundance and form part of what you could refer to as experience. But there is a point where education meets experience. You can be taught most things but in practice its a differenmt matter.

My riding is usually erring on the safe side. I don't take many unneccessary chances but I do push my luck often.

Sometimes there are things you will be taught that are irrelevvant and all they do is fog the isue. Keep it simple is my approach. For example. I am not a fan of "the lifesaver". Almost never do it. In fact, unless I am in a group of bikes there is no point to it.

Consider this and discuss if you want. Is there a possibility that training someone may give them a feeling of superiority that would encourage that person to ride beyond their own natural limits? To qualify this I mean a nervous rider or one of limited experience.

Its a bit like Volvo drivers of the 80's who drove like they were invincible.
 
Fergie said:
For example. I am not a fan of "the lifesaver". Almost never do it. In fact, unless I am in a group of bikes there is no point to it.
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...then one day you pull out to overtake a car, did you see the tw@t on the R1 overtaking you both, the hint is in the name "lifesaver". So, for the avoidance of doubt :D You're right, every ROSPA / IAM / Police Instructor is wrong ?
 
Thats not what I said.

I prefer to use observation of different sorts. Mirrors, eyes etc.

As for the guys you mentioned..........what makes them any different to me? Just because you teach something does not necessarily make you better at it. I am comfortable with what I know and I am down for the next Bikesafe day which, if invited, I will attend. IAM etc has never, and will never attract me.

I'm sure a teacher will come along at some point to spit venom at me for this but is the old saying not......

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach":)
 
oh sorry, my quote button must be retyping words then... sorry :D :D bad, bad computer...:comp2: :comp2: :comp2: :D :D :D
 
Fergie said:
My feelings are that on the road there are obvious signs, signals, hazards and the like. ......................

For example. I am not a fan of "the lifesaver". Almost never do it. In fact, unless I am in a group of bikes there is no point to it.

Is there a possibility that training someone may give them a feeling of superiority that would encourage that person to ride beyond their own natural limits? .
Click to expand...

I'll address these first.

I agree there are lots of obvious signs/road markings etc. BUT there are even more very subtle changes in road markings/signage etc, changes in length of the broken whites along the middle of the road, changes in frequency of cats eyes, actually to many to mention... All help a rider/driver to form an educated image about what may lie ahead.

To publically state on a motorbike forum that you don't believe in/use the lifesaver regularly is amazing. I don't really need to dwell on that.

Fergie said:
As for the guys you mentioned..........what makes them any different to me? Just because you teach something does not necessarily make you better at it.
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach":)
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What do these guys know? The are only paid "Professional" riders.

You absolutely amaze me with your comments.
 
On second thoughts. You are just takin the @@@@ right???

Casting the line out.... yankin the chain.....you aint serious.... are you?
 
No. I was actually being serious. If I was throwing out bait I would have started it with "here fishy fishy!" :)

Listen guys, I'm not on to stir things but I personally feel my skill and knowledge levels are sufficient for my type and style of riding. If I need to brush up then I'll do the Bikesafe and that would be it. If I need track skills I'd do a track school day. Simple as that.

As for the "lifesaver"? I find it a worthless time waste and I very rarely use it. Not to say never, because I feel there is the very odd occasion where it can be of use, but it is not something I do "just because I'm told to".

Anyway. I am glad I amaze you. Keeps you on your toes.







































NEXT!
 
PaulV, it ain't worth raisin' the blood pressure mate, count to 10 :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: I've booked up with the guys from Best Rider Training, you know it's worth it, I know it's worth it... it's an opinion. Remember what Clint Eastwood said, opinions are like @rseholes, everyone has one. I'll keep this thread up to date with my experiences with Best. Judging from the discussions last night with Stuart and Bruce - VERY IMPRESSED. Fergie, you'll find that ALL the instructors for Bike Safe are AIM trained and certified, discuss your views with them, just for an indepedent view.
 
Not raising my blood pressure;)

Viagra couldn't raise my blood pressure, life ain't long enough.

How about we let this thread sink and you can start a new one with a report of the training.
 
maw paw the weans and oor wullie

guid joab a' didnae bring ma lang spoon tae add tae the pot.
i'm with paul -- look forward to hearing how the training went.:o :) :D
 
ummm I've got an ars... err opinion , bearing in mind I've done no training whatsoever (7 , 9 , 7 on that 'test' ) I think i'd have to side with Fergi slightly on this one ,

I've never seen the sense of learning stopping distances parrot fashion, you don't think hummm that looks like about 60 meters i can only safely do 40 mph, much more likely that with experience you can judge a 'safe' (whatever that actually means) speed / distance or whatever

I also think the 'safety Nazis' have been at the roads over the last 10 - 15 years or however long double white lining sections that had previously not been (presumably because some cock ends cant judge/ speed's distances properly (proberly me like))

I think towns and city's have too many road signs , its just about impossible to navigate an unfamiliar city on your own, there's just way too much going on to recall every road rule and traffic sign , experience of town riding makes a massive difference, and I would say, far more than a few weeks training

and a few of the questions are the fault of desk jockey @@@@@@s , of the 4 types of pedestrian crossing which can you legally cycle across ? am i actually going to run over a cyclist because he didnt dismount ?

and has anyone ever actually seen one of the minimum speed limit signs ?

its all rubbish and with the ever more polarised traffic police to speed camera ratio you can get away with all sorts of @@@@ poor riding
 
Scotty, I take my hat (arai) off to you mate for a FIRST CLASS post, in one post you've summarised the bad bits of advanced training... you're bang on about pedestrian crossings, braking distances etc and of course you are 100%right. Braking distances, something like 300 feet at 70mph - utter sh1te. I took the Desmo out last night, found a "marker" on a quiet road, took the bike up to 70mph, got to the marker, hammered on the brembos.... after I got tossed over the @@@@ing bars, I picked up the bike, dusted down the carbon fibre (joking)... and measured - MY @RSE 300 feet, try half that. My point, modern kit stops quicker. The advanced driving course FOR ME, is all about road positioning, forward observation, scanning techniques etc - things that we all usually miss, diesel on roundabouts/corners, car edging forward at T junctions, dozy lane changers - the advanced driver is taught how to identify these hazards, not make himself (or herself) immune to the dangers, just kind of a "sixth sense". One point that I picked up was situation awareness, you're approaching a roundabout near an Industrial Estate... the hazard is............









































...... fooking trucks, going round the roundabout splashing diesel... they moan about the price, but seem happy about leaving 5 litres on every roundabout. Anyway, great post and what this forum is ALL ABOUT.
 
O feck the lot of yer, I don't need any of this - I'm a perfect rider, ride a perfect bike, on perfect roads, in a perfect world!!! ;) :D

As for lifesavers - I don't run mirrors so I have two choices don't I!!
































...well, someone's got to lighten up this thread, it's depressing me!!! ;) :)
 
Read the police riders handbook and most is downright blindingly obvious to anyone who has been on bike for a few years, but the one thing I personally picked up on was on motorways when overtaking lorries - y'never see a police bike overtake unless the car in front is way past the lorry..sort of an escape route type thing. Lo and behold last week exactly what saved me bacon as lorry in middle lane swerved into outside lane to avoid pillocks in slow lane avoiding pillocks coming on from slip road.
Experience is the best teacher but if you can learn from someone elses experience then you save yourself a potential hospital visit.
 
Advance Update

Having now started an advanced driving course (for both IAM and ROSPA) I can now give you an update on the facts regarding advanced riding, the safety and PRACTICAL aspects. It's worth EVERY PENNY. I'm doing mine currently through Best Rider Training, the instructor is a serving traffic cop biker, and my opinion of traffic cops has changed (until I get done again !!!).
I thought I was a safe rider, not too fast, not too slow, looked ahead and anticipated... whilst I AM, the improvements already have been superb.

Don't want to start a war again, it's up to you guys... but it is worth it, there's a lot of @rseholes driving out there... some of them may just find you.
 
I did an advanced training course in 1978 and passed the IAM with a serving police officer and I would think there have been a few advances over the years.
I thought I was careful and fairly safe, reading the road ahead and using previous experience as well, I suppose I have had a few lapses in concentration and the unexpected occurrence as well, just like anybody else:rolleyes:
I still managed to get hit by a French dickhead who was high on dope, head on while standing still on the way in to the Paul Ricard circuit in France resulting in a broken left Humerus :eek:
Just over two years ago an @rsole in a Range Rover pulled out on me riding towards him in the middle of the road and 30' away decided to pull out turned the wheel hitting me with the passenger corner of his RR while I was riding in the far gutter trying to avoid him :eek:
Just goes to show there are dickheads and @rsoles out there that will still take you out no matter how careful you are and how much training you have.
I just hope I can resume enjoying riding as much as I used to:)
 
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