Clutch - less Gear change

Doctor Love

Doctor Love

Active member
I need some info on my Duk 999r - I have not long had this machine got it tail end of last year, only driven it 4 times since then.

Iv always had Japanese machines - most recently GSXR K4 & before that TLR had this for 5 years,...great bike.

Ive always changed up the gearbox without using the clutch for as long as I can remember, not had any issues with this at all,..however the Duk is not as willing.

I have noticed that the gear lever travels more to get the bike in gear, and when I'm running at a normal pace 70 ish it works not to bad, only slightly jumping forward from 1st two 2nd, when you get going its ok,..however when you start to nail it - that's where it starts to become less reluctant to go into the next gear (not always just sometimes) and I have noted that I have hit a false neutral between 3 & 4th gear a few times.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.:thumbs:
DL
 
Hi Doctor Love,

The Ducati Gearbox is fairly "agricultural", as a well respected engine builder put it to me.

You have to be "very committed" with your gear changes. By this he meant, literally smashing it in.

If you "snick" your changes delicately, like I did, you run the risk of hitting false neutrals alot, particularly when high revving through the gears. I've been without my 748R for nearly a year now cos of my "gentle" use of the box. The dogs were rounded on my gearbox and this was put down to hitting false neutrals. Said engine builder told me that two respected top racers went through at least two boxes each on the factory Dukes before they grasped the mentality needed after switching over from fours.

The gear change selector shaft is a great long curved thing on the Duke as opposed to a very short item on most fours. This introduces additional play and neutrality in the changes necessitaing a committed shift to get it to move properly and make the change.

Rest assured, when I get my motor back this week, it'll be well and truly kicked into gear so I don't run the risk of having yet more probs with mine.

Another option is to fit a race shift lever so you get more pressure on your upchanges (by stamping down as opposed to trying to twist your ankle up in an unorthodox motion). It's an option I'm seriously considering myself.

Guy
 
For what it's worth i have 748S with a reverse gear lever(1 up 5 down pattern), and allways change up without using the clutch. I have had the bike for 2 years now, and have never missed a gear, and it changes gear with very light pressure on the lever.
I have never ridden with the standard gear change so i can't compere the two set ups, but your thoughts about the reverse gear lever i'm sure are right.
 
Hi had the same problem when i had my 749r.It seemed to hold on to the gear when at high revs.Its just a case of getting your throttle control spot on,just backing off the throtlle the right amount when changing up.Persevere with it and it will come.
 
tdijam said:
For what it's worth i have 748S with a reverse gear lever(1 up 5 down pattern), and allways change up without using the clutch. I have had the bike for 2 years now, and have never missed a gear, and it changes gear with very light pressure on the lever.
I have never ridden with the standard gear change so i can't compere the two set ups, but your thoughts about the reverse gear lever i'm sure are right.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice guys, I changed my GSXR over to a set of race pegs, I up 5 down and driven it like this for the last 2 years,..until I got the Ducati.

Can the original shifter on the bike be turned round, so that it then changes to race shift pattern, I noticed that the gear rod is expandable,.. if so this would probably cure the problem, and save me £350 on a new set of rearsets.:lol2:
 
Doctor Love said:
Thanks for the advice guys, I changed my GSXR over to a set of race pegs, I up 5 down and driven it like this for the last 2 years,..until I got the Ducati.

Can the original shifter on the bike be turned round, so that it then changes to race shift pattern, I noticed that the gear rod is expandable,.. if so this would probably cure the problem, and save me £350 on a new set of rearsets.:lol2:
Click to expand...

No the original gear lever cannot be used to reverse the gear change, to 1 up 5 down pattern. I bought a new gear lever for £52 from Moto Rapido, a Ducati Corse replica .I have seen some on ebay for around £35 .I retained the standard footpegs and brake lever, and find the position of the gear lever to be fine .
]Hope this helps.
 
tdijam said:
No the original gear lever cannot be used to reverse the gear change, to 1 up 5 down pattern. I bought a new gear lever for £52 from Moto Rapido, a Ducati Corse replica .I have seen some on ebay for around £35 .I retained the standard footpegs and brake lever, and find the position of the gear lever to be fine .
]Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mate, I will go on line today and see if I can get a new 1 from Moto Rapido, do I retain the original gear linkage of will that also come with the shifter? :o

Thanks David
 
Agricultural? All my Ducati boxes are absolutely beautiful with smooth shift actions whether clutchless or not. If the o/p is having probs then the first place I would look is the linkage setup to make sure that the lever angle is the same as the clamp angle on the gearchange shaft as this is often the cause of such problems.

The next thing I would look at is the clutch itself.

I would never dream of "smashing" a bike into gear like Guido describes even when I race - that is just plain hamfisted riding!
 
twpd said:
Agricultural? All my Ducati boxes are absolutely beautiful with smooth shift actions whether clutchless or not. If the o/p is having probs then the first place I would look is the linkage setup to make sure that the lever angle is the same as the clamp angle on the gearchange shaft as this is often the cause of such problems.

The next thing I would look at is the clutch itself.

I would never dream of "smashing" a bike into gear like Guido describes even when I race - that is just plain hamfisted riding!
Click to expand...

The bike has just had a new clutch fitted 3 weeks ago by DG, was slipping badly,.. got it under warranty.:eek:

I will have a look at the linkages tonight,..although I think I will go to the 1 up / 5 down, as I was used to this with my last bike.

Thanks for the tip - just new to the Ducati thing so all advice appreciated. :)
 
twpd said:
I would never dream of "smashing" a bike into gear like Guido describes even when I race - that is just plain hamfisted riding!
Click to expand...

Perhaps that was a little over-zealous twpd.

"Positive" is probably the word I was looking for :)
 
Aye Guido...that would be a bit better.

I had a perfect illustration of the setup issue recently because the ER6's change has always been rubbish - clunky, stiff and imprecise. I couldn't get gears or kept missing gears. I shifted the lever round one spline on the shaft and the change was so much better you would swear it had a new gearbox.
 
Doctor Love said:
The bike has just had a new clutch fitted 3 weeks ago by DG, was slipping badly,.. got it under warranty.:eek:

I will have a look at the linkages tonight,..although I think I will go to the 1 up / 5 down, as I was used to this with my last bike.

Thanks for the tip - just new to the Ducati thing so all advice appreciated. :)
Click to expand...

I don't think I've explained myself too well and a diagram would probably be much better. The purpose of doing what I said is to ensure that the clamp on the spline and the elbow on the gear lever move in unison with the same angular travel at all times - this ensures maximum mechanical effort/work is achieved by the shift action.
 
Doctor Love said:
Thanks Mate, I will go on line today and see if I can get a new 1 from Moto Rapido, do I retain the original gear linkage of will that also come with the shifter? :o

Thanks David
Click to expand...

If the reverse gear lever is fitted the original linkage is not used. This is the reason the reverse lever gives a more positive feel to the gear change, as the lever is directly connected to the gear change shaft , and not through a linkage.
 
twpd said:
I don't think I've explained myself too well and a diagram would probably be much better. The purpose of doing what I said is to ensure that the clamp on the spline and the elbow on the gear lever move in unison with the same angular travel at all times - this ensures maximum mechanical effort/work is achieved by the shift action.
Click to expand...

I will have a look at it tonight (weather permitting) I know what you mean now - there is some play from it all,..so it might only all need adjusted.

Thanks for your input
 
twpd said:
I don't think I've explained myself too well and a diagram would probably be much better. The purpose of doing what I said is to ensure that the clamp on the spline and the elbow on the gear lever move in unison with the same angular travel at all times - this ensures maximum mechanical effort/work is achieved by the shift action.
Click to expand...

Finally got a chance to have a look at the linkage on my bike last weekend, I re adjusted all the linkages, altering the length
that attaches to the gearbox (so that they ran at the same angle) also taken off and re aligned a further click on the spindal.

Have had it out and problem solved, no false neutrals or clunky gear changes.

Thanks for the advice on this one.:thumbs:
David
 
Glad to here that you have sorted your gear change out.I would still fit a reverse lever , i'm sure you would notice a further improvment to the gear change by removing the linkage. I think the gear change on my 748 is the best i have experienced, plus the gear change is the correct pattern , one up five down!(ex racer)
 
tdijam said:
Glad to here that you have sorted your gear change out.I would still fit a reverse lever , i'm sure you would notice a further improvment to the gear change by removing the linkage. I think the gear change on my 748 is the best i have experienced, plus the gear change is the correct pattern , one up five down!(ex racer)
Click to expand...

Got 1 orderd up mate:D

Thanks
David
 
Doctor Love said:
Finally got a chance to have a look at the linkage on my bike last weekend, I re adjusted all the linkages, altering the length
that attaches to the gearbox (so that they ran at the same angle) also taken off and re aligned a further click on the spindal.

Have had it out and problem solved, no false neutrals or clunky gear changes.

Thanks for the advice on this one.:thumbs:
David
Click to expand...

Sorted! It's amazing what a bit of attention to detail can achieve. :D

Well done!
 
quickshifter, that'll sort the problems. Don't have one but must treat myself to one now.
 
Mad Dash said:
quickshifter, that'll sort the problems. Don't have one but must treat myself to one now.
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MD I was thinking about a quickshifter,.. however I'm not sure how well they would perform on the road? also I think that after time they me be a bit of a gearbox wrecker:eek:.

I think they are ok if like you - you do a lot of track days - I've never got that far,... yet - maybe when I get used to it I may take it 2 Knockhill for a wee blast round.:thumbs:

David
 
Quickshifters are for those who can't change gear properly :) Unless you're a racing god that is.
 
twpd said:
Unless you're a racing god that is.
Click to expand...

:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail: that he is, anyone that does a 1.49 at Jerez on a standard road bike I think is worthy of that title....
 
Gordon said:
I thought your 1:46 was pretty awesome as well!
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Thanks mate, I too thought the 1.46 was great - when we're back in September I'll try and get this down to a 1 hour 45, but I'd really need to push it, you know :rolleyes:
 
Mad Dash said:
Thanks mate, I too thought the 1.46 was great - when we're back in September I'll try and get this down to a 1 hour 45, but I'd really need to push it, you know :rolleyes:
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[B]But, we were told that Gordon did it in 1 minute 47 seconds & M.D. did it in 1 hour 46 minutes.[/B]:D:D;);)

Plenty room for improverment there.:thumbs::thumbs::finger::thumbs:
 
Mad Dash said:
Thanks mate, I too thought the 1.46 was great - when we're back in September I'll try and get this down to a 1 hour 45, but I'd really need to push it, you know :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Chiz said:
[B]But, we were told that Gordon did it in 1 minute 47 seconds & M.D. did it in 1 hour 46 minutes.[/B]:D:D;);)

Plenty room for improverment there.:thumbs::thumbs::finger::thumbs:
Click to expand...

OOOOPS, Just read your reply properly M.D.
You had already slagged yourself off, before I got to the thread.
 
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