Digital v analogue Ducatis (now the gif + meme directory entries have been removed)
- Thread starter sev
- Start date
it’s a shame that happened for it’s a useful discussion. 
Funnily enough, I've found the opposite. I always turn rider aids off on my bikes. Not because I'm hard and a riding god, but because they leave me feeling disconnected and not fully in control. I'd rather feel like my throttle is connected to the back wheel and I've not yet rode with a system that does that. It's a bit like doing internet banking when you don't understand or trust the technology and I'm used to licking envelopes. It feels like someone I don't know has taken over the controls and I'm a passenger.
On the other hand, I've just bought a (nearly) new pick-up truck with lots of bells and whistles and most of it has been a bit of a revelation.
Yesterday I dived down a shortcut out of habit, forgetting it was extremely steep and temperatures had dropped to sub-zero on top of a fall of wet snow. It was glassy frozen slush on a windy steep descent. There was a car in front creeping down, dabbing the brakes, sliding, dabbing again and shitting himself. I thought, hmm, time to try the hill descent assist. Hit the button and hoped for the best. It worked a treat. When it got really steep and really slippery, there was a whir from the back end it felt like I was being being gently winched down on a tether. I just left it in first, took my foot off the throttle and brakes and it did it all for me. The climate control was set to 23 degrees, the leather seats were extremely comfortable and there was a nice tune playing on the radio. Lovely.
Personally, I’m all for rider aids - snything that’s gonna save me and the bike. For sure they can’t outrun the laws of physics but in an emergency stop situation if abs can stop me quicker and keep me upright and if traction control can stop a slide on a wet greasy corner, or when you run into loose gravel half way round the bend, I’m all for it
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I ride both old and new, MTS1260S and 916/888, swapping between the three depending on weather and reason for ride. The biggest difference is sheer performance; the modern engine and supension make the old bikes feel pretty agricultural and is so much quicker. I use the quickshifter when I remember I have one on the MTS and on the oldies I sometimes ignore the clutch. Sort of depends on the day, use, etc. but doesn't make a big difference. Up until Covid I regularly commuted into London City on the MTS - a fantastic machine for hacking through traffic and trying to keep up with despatch riders, and then the turning circle, good springs, ABS and TC are a godsend. I would add that I think the benefits of active suspension like Skyhook are a bit overstated - as they happen/react after the event, and then the next event is different etc.
I have had a few close calls over the years which may have been avoided if I was on a more modern bike but I reckon that if the lights look like a Xmas tree and are indicating that the rider aids are constantly kicking in then perhaps one is riding too fast for the conditons, track days excepted (and then you dial them down anyway). My personal view is that the technology is there to handle exceptions not everyday, normal use and help out when things don't quite work out as expected. Except for heated grips... I love heated grips... which I don't have on the '90s era bikes. Mind you I am 59, riddled with arthritis, a grumpy old git and no longer feel indestructible so anything that helps to keep me sunny side up is appreciated - but mainly I am more cautious. Either way, both analogue digital are great fun...!
I have had a few close calls over the years which may have been avoided if I was on a more modern bike but I reckon that if the lights look like a Xmas tree and are indicating that the rider aids are constantly kicking in then perhaps one is riding too fast for the conditons, track days excepted (and then you dial them down anyway). My personal view is that the technology is there to handle exceptions not everyday, normal use and help out when things don't quite work out as expected. Except for heated grips... I love heated grips... which I don't have on the '90s era bikes. Mind you I am 59, riddled with arthritis, a grumpy old git and no longer feel indestructible so anything that helps to keep me sunny side up is appreciated - but mainly I am more cautious. Either way, both analogue digital are great fun...!
Shoboshi
Well-known member
My first Duc was a 1098… An absolute minter I bought from a colleague in fire service.
Absolutely loved it..
The next was an 1199 Panigale…
Out of all the bikes I’ve owned, this bike, THE Thai Ladyboy of motorcycles, is(was) without a doubt, the most disappointing bike I’ve ever owned. It simply did not handle unless you were on a billiard table smooth piece of road.
Engine brill, brakes brill..
Handling… awful..
* Thai Ladyboy of bikes?*
“Stunning to look at but underneath, something is definitely fucked up.!”
Absolutely loved it..
The next was an 1199 Panigale…
Out of all the bikes I’ve owned, this bike, THE Thai Ladyboy of motorcycles, is(was) without a doubt, the most disappointing bike I’ve ever owned. It simply did not handle unless you were on a billiard table smooth piece of road.
Engine brill, brakes brill..
Handling… awful..
* Thai Ladyboy of bikes?*
“Stunning to look at but underneath, something is definitely fucked up.!”
I've been saved a few times by traction control (very unobtrusive on the BM) and ABS.
A couple of years ago me, my bro and a mate of ours were having a few days riding, and on the way back my bro's S1000XR ABS light came on at Bamburgh. Brakes worked but not the ABS - we decided to head across to Llyod BMW Carlisle and on the way (long story short) he had to grab a handful of brake on a dry road about 80mph and it locked up and tucked under and his bike ended up in the front of an arctic, he just missed it.
As all my riding is on roads, which are unpredictable, I like the back up for when my abilty runs out.
A couple of years ago me, my bro and a mate of ours were having a few days riding, and on the way back my bro's S1000XR ABS light came on at Bamburgh. Brakes worked but not the ABS - we decided to head across to Llyod BMW Carlisle and on the way (long story short) he had to grab a handful of brake on a dry road about 80mph and it locked up and tucked under and his bike ended up in the front of an arctic, he just missed it.
As all my riding is on roads, which are unpredictable, I like the back up for when my abilty runs out.
My 1098 SF has no electronic aids. It's the standard model without the TC. Not even ABS. Stock 1098 SFs make about 141 bhp and 80 ft/lb at the wheel. I know this because mine went on the dyno for a remap when it was stock. then I had it blue-printed and tuned by Rich Lewellyn. It now makes 162 bhp and 93 ft/lb at the wheel. Comparable to current sub-200bhp supernakeds like the 1290 Superduke and 1100 Tuono. It was remapped following the work by Chris at CJS and the throttle connection feels sublime.
I also have gen 1 1290 Superduke. The TC was awful, very intrusive. I could feel it feathering the power if I tried to wind on hard coming out of a bend. It was a pain so I fitted a bypass dongle and left it permanently switched off. But it still has a progressive throttle ramp that won't give you full power unless you wind round the throttle further than is intuitive. I guess it's to stop numpties lofting uncontrolled wheelies and looping it (as a journalist did at the official launch). And if you do loft an accidental one with the TC on, it'll let it rise a couple of feet then bring it slamming down abruptly. Journos nailing it up drag strips to see how fast it would accelerate say it will start kangarooing as you hit triple figures with the TC and anti-wheelie snapping in and out. I haven't tried that (and won't be doing so..) but deliberate power wheelies are a haphazard affair because nothing happens when you're expecting it to so you keep going and keep going and then everything happens.
I know it's supposed to be a safety aid but if anything I think it makes the bike feel nervous because you're never quite sure where you are with the throttle. I may sell it (not because of that but just for a change) but if I keep it the throttle ramp will get remapped to bring it as close to 1:1 as is usable - which is what I had done with my old 990 SMT. Not hair trigger but just so it feels like a cable throttle that's connected directly to the rear tyre. The SF with its direct connection actually feels safer because you always know where you are with the power. It will catch you out if you're not engaged and highsides aside, which can come out of nowhere, with good tyres the connection is so good that you can feel what's coming.
I know that TC systems are far better on the latest bikes than on my Superduke and that experience isn't representative but, not having grown up with rider aids, I don't trust them. I've got a KTM 1190 Adv as well, which was the first production bike to have lean-sensitive ABS. In theory you can slam the front brake on mid-bend with the bike on it's ear and the front won't tuck. But there's no bloody way I'm going to try it out. In any case, the forks will still dive which has got to tie it in all sorts of knots when it's heeled right over.
Question is, if you have grown up with these systems and you do trust them, and you're not a professional rider with all the hooning skill set, are they protecting you or teaching you how not to ride?
I also have gen 1 1290 Superduke. The TC was awful, very intrusive. I could feel it feathering the power if I tried to wind on hard coming out of a bend. It was a pain so I fitted a bypass dongle and left it permanently switched off. But it still has a progressive throttle ramp that won't give you full power unless you wind round the throttle further than is intuitive. I guess it's to stop numpties lofting uncontrolled wheelies and looping it (as a journalist did at the official launch). And if you do loft an accidental one with the TC on, it'll let it rise a couple of feet then bring it slamming down abruptly. Journos nailing it up drag strips to see how fast it would accelerate say it will start kangarooing as you hit triple figures with the TC and anti-wheelie snapping in and out. I haven't tried that (and won't be doing so..) but deliberate power wheelies are a haphazard affair because nothing happens when you're expecting it to so you keep going and keep going and then everything happens.
I know it's supposed to be a safety aid but if anything I think it makes the bike feel nervous because you're never quite sure where you are with the throttle. I may sell it (not because of that but just for a change) but if I keep it the throttle ramp will get remapped to bring it as close to 1:1 as is usable - which is what I had done with my old 990 SMT. Not hair trigger but just so it feels like a cable throttle that's connected directly to the rear tyre. The SF with its direct connection actually feels safer because you always know where you are with the power. It will catch you out if you're not engaged and highsides aside, which can come out of nowhere, with good tyres the connection is so good that you can feel what's coming.
I know that TC systems are far better on the latest bikes than on my Superduke and that experience isn't representative but, not having grown up with rider aids, I don't trust them. I've got a KTM 1190 Adv as well, which was the first production bike to have lean-sensitive ABS. In theory you can slam the front brake on mid-bend with the bike on it's ear and the front won't tuck. But there's no bloody way I'm going to try it out. In any case, the forks will still dive which has got to tie it in all sorts of knots when it's heeled right over.
Question is, if you have grown up with these systems and you do trust them, and you're not a professional rider with all the hooning skill set, are they protecting you or teaching you how not to ride?
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Back n the '80s I worked for Brann Direct in Cirencester - we were responsbile for the DM element of the Ford Granada Scorpio launch as as such had a Scorpio on loan for a while. Brilliant car btw, but I recall being out in it with my colleague Tim driving, me up front and two female colleagues in the rear. Tim being a bid of 'car' lad, while driving failrly/stupidly fast, went on to try and explain how this new fandangled ABS stuff worked - and at about 7Omph on the short bit of old A417 dual bypass near the South Cerney turn-off he stamped on the brakes...! Hmmm... it got very crowded in the front, left probaly 50 mteres of black rubber on tarmac and stopped the traffic behind us quickly. He now knows how ABS works... 
My old lady had the 2.9i ghiaX great carBack n the '80s I worked for Brann Direct in Cirencester - we were responsbile for the DM element of the Ford Granada Scorpio launch as as such had a Scorpio on loan for a while. Brilliant car btw, but I recall being out in it with my colleague Tim driving, me up front and two female colleagues in the rear. Tim being a bid of 'car' lad, while driving failrly/stupidly fast, went on to try and explain how this new fandangled ABS stuff worked - and at about 7Omph on the short bit of old A417 dual bypass near the South Cerney turn-off he stamped on the brakes...! Hmmm... it got very crowded in the front, left probaly 50 mteres of black rubber on tarmac and stopped the traffic behind us quickly. He now knows how ABS works...
It's horses for courses
I love the DR=Z which has no fancy aids.
The MTS1260s has got me out of trouble with its wizardry on a couple of occasions. The wheelie control is useful too, as I'm a bit heavy handed.
I love the DR=Z which has no fancy aids.
The MTS1260s has got me out of trouble with its wizardry on a couple of occasions. The wheelie control is useful too, as I'm a bit heavy handed.
My old lady had the 2.9i ghiaX great car
My dad had one. I went out in it one night because it was parked behind my car. It was a monday and I'd had a 'busy' weekend. Anyway, I fell asleep about 1am on the way home on the M6; left the motorway and landed about 30' below in amongst some young trees. Car was fubar'd - drivers door was off weirdly but not before I'd put the glass through on it with my face. No-one would've known I was there so had to climb back up to the motorway and tried to flag down a truck. He must've stopped at the next junction and phoned the cops 'theres a guy covered in blood and mud, bent double (I'd broke my back) walking along the hard shoulder' because one turned up in a few minutes...then they called an ambulance.
I can confirm, neither the 4x4 system, nor the ABS were any use once the wheels were off the ground.