Project Imola

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Mad Dash

Just visiting
Did anyone notice that Project Imola 004's (Ed) bike is pictured in MCN as they do Britain's Got Biking Talent.... I can't remember, how well did it do ? I thought it didn't make the final 6 ???? Interesting that it's the most prominent picture now. It should re-enter.

Nice bike, shame about........... let's not go there... lovely bike.
 
excuse my total Ducati ignorance, was this the bike that the Paul Smart was based on ??? Gizmo ????

S
 
Wrong way round Stuart. That bike was based on Paul Smart's 1973 Imola winning Bevel 750. As was the Ducati's recent Paul Smart 1000.
Here is a pic
smart_imola_72.jpg
 
Sorry Derek that's what I meant the Paul Smart Replica... thanks for that. I have to say it's a really awesome looking bike... I could really be tempted for some kind of sports classic like the Paul Smart Rep. As we know current sports bikes are not ideal for today's roads and "changing attitudes".

I wasn't sure if the Imola and the Paul Smart were based on the same thing.
 
Interesting question on the Smart rep Stuart. According to PT it was an evolution of the MH900 concept linked to a 1973 750 Super Sport ( a bike many consider the holy grail of Ducati's). PT was a big admirer of the 750 supersport and original MHR and has been quoted as saying they influenced his design. The finished article is close to the 750 supersport but has many elements of MH900e in it.

smart6.jpg


Whilst the Baines PI got to market ahead of the factory SC lineup its hard to know which came first, given the timescale Ducati need to bring a bike from concept to show one has to think it was a few years in the making. The MH900 was launched in 2000 and given its sellout success I'd think they immediately started work on the Smart.

The Baines and Smart are 2 very different bikes, with the Smart PT took the original idea and developed it, a bit like a new Mini, with the PI its more in keeping with the original bike. Personally I prefer the factory bike, I like the blend of old and new, the Baines bike is a bit too kit bike for me even when well executed and Ed's is one of the better ones but each to their own.

Follow the link in my signature f you want more history on the 750 supersport or sc range, i don't update the blog but what is there is a reasonable history there.
 
I think the Imola was meant to be a 1980,s bevel 900SS for the modern age built by Baines Racing :confused: But Ducati released the Paul Smart and later the Sports Classic which effectively did for the Imola .


Paul
 
This is all interesting stuff, I only came onto the Ducati scene at the end off the 998 era (first Ducati 999bip), so I am well out of touch with recent history of Ducati (1980-2000) which seems TBH to be pretty interesting stuff.

Thanks for those posts - VERY informative

Stuart
 
Its worth getting a few books on the history of Ducati Stuart, for me I only really know the bikes from early 70's on, they were the posters that got stuck on my bedroom wall. TBH for me it was also MV/Laverda, Guzzi LeMans BMW R90S, Z1 750/4. The Sc range rekindled an interest in those bikes so now i know a lot more than i did at the time mainly from books and the web.
 
I'm not too keen on replicas (cars or bikes)...

... but Ed's bike is a stunner and lets face it there's not many folks going to take an original 900ss out on trackdays these days on a regular basis.

The Baines bike is way better than Ducati's effort IMHO.

Take care,

Frank
 
what has always surprised me is that ducati didn't expand upon the SC range with a 900SS rep based on the Smart /Sport 1000 theme. The US black/gold limited edition showed it could have been a success, all that would have needed was the 1/2 fairing to make a stunning bike. I'd toyed with the idea of taking a Sport 1000 and doing it myself but came back to thinking that it would look too much of a kit/rep and would have spoilt it whereas the Smart is finished to factory standards although lacking a couple of features I personally feel should have been incorporated, blue/green centre stand, finned valve covers and exhaust manifold clamps for example
 
Stuart,
There are many books on the history of Ducati but if I was to recommend only one it would be Ian Falloon's book "Standard Catalog of Ducati Motorcycles". (yes that's not how I spell catalogue either before you say!)
Covers most of the production bikes from the early days and has enough information on each model to give you a background without being too in depth.
Has nice photos of the different models and explains how each range changed over the production run.
The Baines kit is essentially a slightly modified carb SS frame with a twin shock setup. Idea was to give the "bevel" look with the belt motor and modern forks.
As Screwy says with the launch of the Ducati Classic range folk were left with either £7k for a brand new bike with warranty from Ducati or (in my opinion) a better looking kit from Baines but build it yourself with secondhand parts and if you want the standard of finish Eddie has on his bike you would be paying more than the Ducati offering. Eddie told me how much he had spent on the bike but for many folk they couldn't justify that amount on something with no "book value". His bike is probably the best finished I have seen. If you decided to sell you have a limited market.
Bevelheaven.com has one in their photo gallery under "specials" that is a nice variation on the kit. Check that out!
John Fallon at Made in Italy Motorcycles (was Mdinaitalia) has got a Baines for sale. He has had that bike for an age and hasn't sold it and very little sticks in his showroom. I looked at that bike a couple of years ago when I was tempted by a Baines.
Other issue to watch now with a Baines is that as a kit it should be SVA'd when built. Baines kind of fudged that issue with registering a bike from what they told me and said I should just stamp the frame number of the donor bike on their new frame and register it as the donor bike. I was not comfortable with that idea for several reasons. A wee thought for you, instead of buying a modern bike why not get yourself a nice Bevel (single or twin). Buy the right one and for a lot less than a 1098 you could have a very tidy piece of classic motorcycle history that you can use at sensible speeds on the road and it is only likely to go up in value. There's a novelty for you. :lol2:
Try getting a ride on one to see the difference and you may be pleasantly surprised.
If you want any pointers give me a shout.
I have converted at least 2 SDC away from the dark side.....you could be my hat trick! :D
 
Saw this in the flesh/metal/carbon at Donington a couple of weeks ago and looked as excellent as the original
 
At last the power of the 999 God will banish the heathens!!!!

Hear me roar!!!

rrrrrrrrooooooooooaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!


:D
 
Its interesting how the rep thing is perceived, as Stewart will tell you many of the 750 GT's get converted to look like SuperSports which in modern terms would be like trying to claim an upgraded base model could be made into an R. You get something that looks like what it should be but never can be. The Baines kit was slightly different in that its obvious its not a 900SS and no attempt is made to deceive. The 3rd option is to move into things like NCR's the older bikes are highly sought after and you now have replicas of a "kit" bike and in many ways reflect the limitations of the Baines kit where these bikes do hold their value. Was sure I had posted info on a company in Australia who were building a run of NCR replicas at crazy prices but can't find it :doh:

Its an interesting subject in that so much does depend upon the work that goes into the bike and the attention to detail, undoubtedly Ed's is one of the best around and as a project must give a lot of self satisfaction to complete.
 
Fergie said:
At last the power of the 999 God will banish the heathens!!!!

Hear me roar!!!

rrrrrrrrooooooooooaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!


:D
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just a damn shame you took yours off roading at Almeria :D:D But yes, I have stated for YEARS now that the 999 WILL be the ICONIC shape of Ducati in years to come... you can see it happening already. And here's another to think about, the "shape" of the 916/996/998 was around for years... the 999 was limited in numbers as it was only in production for 16.5 days before Ducati chickened. Imagine my utter horror in 2025 - Fergie's 999R worth more than the D16RR :furious:

I think I've talked myself into some kind of Sports Classic that can be used on road and track :eek:
 
Mad Dash said:
I think I've talked myself into some kind of Sports Classic that can be used on road and track :eek:
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If your aiming for any track use then possibly the Paul Smart like Gizmos may be a better bet as it already has decent suspension, the other SC bikes like mine have very basic running gear that has been widely criticized and if it is to be used with some vigour then you'd need to sort that.

Its also famously the most uncomfortable bike......ever!, ask me or Sean or Gizmo.:D
 
Dave, what about upgrading suspension, can that be done, OHLINS for example. I'm just thinking out loud here (always a bad sign with me)... I want something a bit different, fun, fast yet slow, modern but classic, sublime yet extreme... the Paul Smart I think does that.

last few runs on the 1098R up "the usual road", have been, ahem, slightly above the legal maximum :rolleyes: I simply can't afford to lose my licence again. It's like the Hyper, obviously well capable of 100+ but the riding experience warrants slower speeds... the 1098R and that other beast - it's jail time.
 
Paul Smart already comes with Ohlins, and they are available to fit onto the standard bikes if you want to throw money at the issue, theres also a few other options.
Next time we're out at the same time come over and try mine.
 
if it was for track use I'd probably go down the 1000S route with a suspension upgrade. I'm still not convinced the Smart and single shock bikes react the same way in left and right hander, if i was on track I'd like to try a twin shock bike for a direct comparison. Problem is 1000S's seem to hold their value, you can pick a single sided Sport up really cheap but half faired S are the opposite although their is a bargain on autotrader at the moment Stuart. A sport with good suspension and the addition of a half fairing and paint would make a good track bike project, the DS engine is easy to tune and had loads of grunt. Biggest problem will be brakes and wheels, you'll need to upgrade both but if you swap forks put monoblocks on.

Not that I ever "race" on the road but I had a play with an 1198S down Hartside a few weeks ago, I thought I'd be left well behind but it took him till the straight at the bottom to get through, what was interesting was that he'd close on the brakes coming into the hairpins but the Smart could gap him on the exit, the 1198 has those big Brembos and decent tyres and I had to break earlier so lost a lot of ground, mid corent the heavy wheels are noticeable and if i had to change direction lost ground again but when it came to opening throttle it was the opposite, the DS engine seemed like it could grunt out wheras the 1198 needs to rev, not il4 numbers but it was more than the DS plus with so much HP you need a bit more care on the throttle, on a road with twisty hairpins where its sub 70mph stuff most of time that grunt is enough to give you a gap.

I'll be interested to see what the depreciation is on the Smart, at the moment values are holding up well and I'm certain I've lost less on this than any Ducati i've owned, ones that are coming up are now more money than I paid and have more miles on :thumbs:
 
Five year ago I was on the point of buying an early Hailwood rep for £4000 but unfortunately my wife got cold feet and decided I could live with out it :(

I now take great delight in showing her the ads on Ebay and in Classic bike where Hailwood reps are going for £13000 + :D

I toy with the idea of getting either a bevel or an air cooled two valve Ducati every year but really can't really justify another bike , Suppose I could either chop the 851 in or swap it ?


Paul
 
Screwy said:
Suppose I could either chop the 851 in or swap it ?


Paul
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851 is a bike that will increase in value in the future and has already had signs of prices rising.
If you are looking at a bevel twin you are probably starting at £4k'ish now for a squarecase useable tidy bike but probably double that for a roundcase.
Likes of a Darmah will keep up with modern traffic and you should still get a good one around £4/5k.
Yellow Tank Commander turns up at the Masher each year on his so they can take big runs just change the oil on a regular basis.
 
Ed is an arsehole, Ed steals T shirts (when we all know it was someone else), Ed undertakes dangerously, Ed has no track sense, Ed annoys trackday organisers, Ed is not to be spoken to or ridden with, Ed is unreliable, Ed eats your babies etc. etc. etc.

But we can all talk about him and his bike when there's a gap to fill in the silence of the wilderness.

Ed is dead, long live Ed. Sorry, @@@@ Ed, but his bike's OK.
 
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rockjock620 said:
Sorry Mike but that doesn't really square up TBH. You know that road better than the back of your hand. You don't know the other guy (or do you?) and how well he knows the road. It needs a back to back ride on both to establish the baseline.
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I stopped and chatted with the guy at the bottom Pete, he was quick, a better rider than me and knew the road and was trying, he couldn't believe how the Smart pulled away on him mid/corner exit, both of us felt that the Smart could get the power down earlier and harder. He'd got close to getting round me a couple of times into the corners but on every occasion he said he couldn't get past. I do ride that road a lot and am always slow in fast out so am used to putting the power on heeled over which might explain it but l do think he was a better rider than me. braking late down that hill ain't easy, if it was uphill maybe not plenty of riders can look impressive but few like doing the downside to Penrith, too twisty and too much load on the front, i know if someone closes as much as he did they are confident in the front not letting go which suggests a reasonable degree of ability when the throttle needs opening :)
 
slowpat said:
think you missed the point!
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oh sorry, forgot folk might not know i had a 999S immediately before i bought the Smart. Not a direct comparison as the 1098/1198 has even more power and TC and will rev differently. its hard to explain how the 4v engine doesn't put the power down in same way. Having had 2 multis which both had the DS engine it was always hard to compare, sit up style and nature of the multi means you don't ride it in the same way, the Smart is the first sport bike/same riding position i can do that on and I'd say the power delivery is different to a 4V water cooled, much easier to apply, seems to drive back wheel faster but also because its way less horsepower you have more confidence opening the throttle. Never tried an 1198 which is why i stopped to chat when i did

Back to back testing is ok if you have time to adjust to both bikes but thats almost impossible for most riders, even experienced test riders struggle with this. I've just finished 3 days of suspension testing on mtb and know what happens! Even if i could adjust its unlikely I'd get as confident on a bike as one I've owned for a year and you may find its actually more accurate to have 2 different riders each of whom knows and understands what there bike is doing and can tell where another bike is stronger/weaker. Part of it will inevitably be down to the rider so one needs to allow for that, I'm not stupid enough to think I'm Vale, know when i watch a rider how good they are and know that if the bike is stronger only in one area its more than likely a combination of rider/bike than one or the other. I'd like a play on an 1198 on Hartside just to see if i can predict where I'd gain and lose time, I know where the 999 was strong ( very stable yet easier to change direction), know ththe limitation is likely caused by the Smarts heavy wheels and poor suspension, I'd assume the 1198 should be equally as good on those bits as the 999, only unknown is by how much the extra power would alter the rear wheel grip and how fast it'll steer but as it takes me weeks to get the suspension setup even that might be alterable given time. Given all of that I'd think that run with the 1198 was a valid comparison even with weeks of practice I wouldn't ride an 1198 as well and i think if we swapped bikes I'd end up unable to catch the 1198 rider if he was on my Smart, just a hunch of course but its a well considered one :)
 
Mad Dash said:
Dave, what about upgrading suspension, can that be done, OHLINS for example. I'm just thinking out loud here (always a bad sign with me)... I want something a bit different, fun, fast yet slow, modern but classic, sublime yet extreme... the Paul Smart I think does that.

last few runs on the 1098R up "the usual road", have been, ahem, slightly above the legal maximum :rolleyes: I simply can't afford to lose my licence again. It's like the Hyper, obviously well capable of 100+ but the riding experience warrants slower speeds... the 1098R and that other beast - it's jail time.
Click to expand...

You can have a couple of laps of my SC at the next DG Track night......I'm sure we can come to an arrangement;)

I love the SC on track, now that I've had it upgraded (thanks to Eddie at ERS) with lighter fly wheel, Slipper clutch and especially adjustable forks. On road it's hard to ride sensibly though, and there may be a slight issue on the ASBO front with the open Termis!:rolleyes:

Take a look at the Sport Classic section on Ducati.ms - some amazing pieces of kit on there!

R
 
rmarinel said:
You can have a couple of laps of my SC at the next DG Track night......I'm sure we can come to an arrangement;)

I love the SC on track, now that I've had it upgraded (thanks to Eddie at ERS) with lighter fly wheel, Slipper clutch and especially adjustable forks. On road it's hard to ride sensibly though, and there may be a slight issue on the ASBO front with the open Termis!:rolleyes:

Take a look at the Sport Classic section on Ducati.ms - some amazing pieces of kit on there!

R
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I should also mention that over the last 2 years I've done about 300 road miles...not sure how many on track, but have clocked up 14 track days, and booked in for another 5 this summer - that's got to be over 1000 miles............or laps of Knockhill so far.......it may be time to try another track!

Out the box the handling is terrible, and even when you get that sorted it's not the fastest in a straight line, but you learn to make the most of it!
 
Gizmo said:
I stopped and chatted with the guy at the bottom Pete, he was quick, a better rider than me and knew the road and was trying, he couldn't believe how the Smart pulled away on him mid/corner exit, both of us felt that the Smart could get the power down earlier and harder. He'd got close to getting round me a couple of times into the corners but on every occasion he said he couldn't get past. I do ride that road a lot and am always slow in fast out so am used to putting the power on heeled over which might explain it but l do think he was a better rider than me. braking late down that hill ain't easy, if it was uphill maybe not plenty of riders can look impressive but few like doing the downside to Penrith, too twisty and too much load on the front, i know if someone closes as much as he did they are confident in the front not letting go which suggests a reasonable degree of ability when the throttle needs opening :)
Click to expand...

fair enough then, good observations. yep downhill aint easy......
 
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