ducatipaddy
New member
Derek....Does your 860 run Veglia or Smiths clocks ? I'm looking for a supply of veglia bezels ?
Another 900 GTS story. The Black Pig
- Thread starter Glawster
- Start date
ducatipaddy
New member
The only place i can find them at a reasonable price is the US however when you add their P&P and VAT and import duty they are near £50 each !!!!!which is daft. Someone in the UK must do them ???
ducatipaddy
New member
Cheers mike
Unfortunately although they call those 80mm the case size is irrelevant, its the bezel size that matters. smiths are 88mm and Veglia 86mm. As those are for BSA and Norton they will be Smiths as Triumph didn't use Veglia till 1979 and BSA was long gone by then. I cant see how they will fit both Smiths and Veglia as they are crimp round bezels and 2mm is to much to lose in a crimp.
Unfortunately although they call those 80mm the case size is irrelevant, its the bezel size that matters. smiths are 88mm and Veglia 86mm. As those are for BSA and Norton they will be Smiths as Triumph didn't use Veglia till 1979 and BSA was long gone by then. I cant see how they will fit both Smiths and Veglia as they are crimp round bezels and 2mm is to much to lose in a crimp.
Glawster
New member
As you know I’m no expert in either motorcycle restoration or engineering – just an enthusiastic cleaner and polisher. However, I’m sure even the most prolific bike builder like Paddy must start to feel a bit apprehensive and excited when the moment finally arrives to see if it will run. I’ve had in my mind for weeks now the thought that the bike will certainly look good – but will it actually start?
I’m still bogged down with the wiring but I do have a working ignition circuit so I thought it was time to give it a try.
Out onto the street to push it around in gear with the plugs out to get the oil circulated up to the top bevel box. I know oil is a contentious topic and everyone has an opinion. I followed Ian Falloon’s recommendation and used straight 50 grade – and immediately regretted it when it took an hour to get it through a funnel into the engine. Straight 50 might be good for an Australian summer but it’s like treacle in a UK winter. Anyway I got it circulated around the engine eventually.
So – attach a couple of little cake icing funnels from my wife’s toolkit and fill the carbs. I had promised to call Pat round for the big event but my son came home from work and egged me on a bit. Second kick she coughed a bit and gently deposited a ball of flame about 50cm in diameter out of one of the exhaust. My lad was well impressed. Next prod she fired up for a couple of seconds. I got Pat round and within 5 minutes the engine was warmed up and running at a fast idle, perfectly content, bellowing like a bull elephant and scaring the neighbours!
The most immediate impression I had was the same as when I bought a new GTS in 1978 after my Trident T150V had (thankfully) been stolen. It’s completely smooth and devoid of vibration. Lovely! Apart from the usual levels of mechanical rustle there appears to be no unusual engine noises. Well done Andy the engine builder. We shut it down, had a beer and felt good about life.
OK, there’s plenty of snagging to do.
- There’s a steady drip of oil from the front cylinder exhaust rocker cover. It’s coming from one of the lower bolts. I cleaned the gasket surfaces and put a smear of silicone on them but this didn’t cure it. Any ideas?
- The starter motor has been working but has now stopped. The solenoid is moving the rod but the motor doesn’t start. I’ve tried adjusting the tie rod to no effect.
- Not sure if the alternator or regulator is working. Is there a simple test?
- And of course I need to finish the wiring.
But it does feel good to see her come back to life!
I’m still bogged down with the wiring but I do have a working ignition circuit so I thought it was time to give it a try.
Out onto the street to push it around in gear with the plugs out to get the oil circulated up to the top bevel box. I know oil is a contentious topic and everyone has an opinion. I followed Ian Falloon’s recommendation and used straight 50 grade – and immediately regretted it when it took an hour to get it through a funnel into the engine. Straight 50 might be good for an Australian summer but it’s like treacle in a UK winter. Anyway I got it circulated around the engine eventually.
So – attach a couple of little cake icing funnels from my wife’s toolkit and fill the carbs. I had promised to call Pat round for the big event but my son came home from work and egged me on a bit. Second kick she coughed a bit and gently deposited a ball of flame about 50cm in diameter out of one of the exhaust. My lad was well impressed. Next prod she fired up for a couple of seconds. I got Pat round and within 5 minutes the engine was warmed up and running at a fast idle, perfectly content, bellowing like a bull elephant and scaring the neighbours!
The most immediate impression I had was the same as when I bought a new GTS in 1978 after my Trident T150V had (thankfully) been stolen. It’s completely smooth and devoid of vibration. Lovely! Apart from the usual levels of mechanical rustle there appears to be no unusual engine noises. Well done Andy the engine builder. We shut it down, had a beer and felt good about life.
OK, there’s plenty of snagging to do.
- There’s a steady drip of oil from the front cylinder exhaust rocker cover. It’s coming from one of the lower bolts. I cleaned the gasket surfaces and put a smear of silicone on them but this didn’t cure it. Any ideas?
- The starter motor has been working but has now stopped. The solenoid is moving the rod but the motor doesn’t start. I’ve tried adjusting the tie rod to no effect.
- Not sure if the alternator or regulator is working. Is there a simple test?
- And of course I need to finish the wiring.
But it does feel good to see her come back to life!
DrD
New member
Have you tried this guy for Bezels, he supplied some Ducati MOC members with suitable ones:
http://www.chronometrics.co.uk/index.html
http://www.chronometrics.co.uk/index.html
ducatipaddy
New member
Cheers DrD i will give him a shout. I suspect he will only do smiths but being in the trade he may well be able to point me in the right direction for Veglia.
It is just beautiful, even though it doesn't yet have all the pretty bits on.
I am looking forward to hearing what your wife thinks of it after she has been out for a spin on it - does she ride herself?
I think you'll find it very hard to let go of this one ;-) I mean the bike, BTW.
I am looking forward to hearing what your wife thinks of it after she has been out for a spin on it - does she ride herself?
I think you'll find it very hard to let go of this one ;-) I mean the bike, BTW.
Smiths/Veglia bezels...
I am going to take a punt on them, Paddy - do you fancy giving my Veglia 900GTS clocks a whirl with the bezels from British Bike Bits? I simply want to reset the clocks to zero & lube them (if that's what is supposed to be done).
I am going to take a punt on them, Paddy - do you fancy giving my Veglia 900GTS clocks a whirl with the bezels from British Bike Bits? I simply want to reset the clocks to zero & lube them (if that's what is supposed to be done).
ducatipaddy
New member
You want me to "clock" them ? I'm sure there is a law against that....
Lets see what the fit is like first.
Lets see what the fit is like first.
Glawster
New member
Hi Paul - yes it's looking good. My wife sort of tolerates motorbikes so long as she doesn't have to go near them. The exception is my 250 which she's happy to ride pillion on account of the fact it will barely reach 50mph when two up!
I bit more progress on the electrics and I now have everything working except the horn...and the stop light circuit where the fuse blows when I try to use either front or rear brake. More investigation required there.
I also have a problem with the starter solenoid. A week ago it was working perfectly, but now it has stopped supplying juice to the starter motor. The relay works and it throws the arm to engage the starter motor, but it doesn't spin. The battery is fully charged, but I see that I don't have 12v exiting the solenoid to the starter motor.
Has anyone taken one of these solenoids apart? It's a hell of a tight fit to remove it now the bike's built up. I'm thinking it must be a bad connection but if anyone has any advice, please shout!
I bit more progress on the electrics and I now have everything working except the horn...and the stop light circuit where the fuse blows when I try to use either front or rear brake. More investigation required there.
I also have a problem with the starter solenoid. A week ago it was working perfectly, but now it has stopped supplying juice to the starter motor. The relay works and it throws the arm to engage the starter motor, but it doesn't spin. The battery is fully charged, but I see that I don't have 12v exiting the solenoid to the starter motor.
Has anyone taken one of these solenoids apart? It's a hell of a tight fit to remove it now the bike's built up. I'm thinking it must be a bad connection but if anyone has any advice, please shout!
Could be a cracked or porous casting. It has been known. There are loads available second hand for not much, I'd try another and see if it ceases.
Firstly, the first thing I do to Ducatis' is rip off the entire starter assembly so I am not the best person to ask; As the solenoid is moving, has the engagement rod been set so that it is preventing the solenoid from completing its full travel i.e., not making contact?
Ride it for a long journey, if it breaks down it is likely the regulator/alternator isn't working. I thought you'd want to thank me for that useful piece of advice. You could check that current is passing through the field winding; I am guessing it places (varying) DC through the field winding and rectifies off charging current from the AC waveform when the motor is running. Derek might feel the urge to fill in what I am guessing at.
Looking at the rear brake light circuit on the 860GTS circuit diagram, the rear brake light switch has two black wires feeding it to save confusion ;-) One is the feed from the fusebox, the other feeds the stop light via the fusebox. The front stop light switch is fed power from the same blue/black wire as the horn, and the return from the front stop light switch is again a black wire which heads back to the fuse fox to feed the stop light. The point being it would be easy to confuse these black wires with being -ve or earth, but they are not.
Perhaps that is where your problem lurks. That nonsense will make sense if you are looking at the circuit diagram which is why you have email.
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Glawster
New member
First the good news. As predicted by Paul I had juxtaposed 2 black wires. There is one black which simply runs from the headlamp earth to the frame earth....and I had this wired into my stop lamp circuit! Switching the wires cured the problem entirely. And I took the horn off the stop light circuit and have now got that working. I also spent a bit of time tidying up the wiring as some bits just weren't necessary. I've certainly veered away from the "standard" wiring diagram and I've had to make my own crib sheet to remember which wire goes where. Basically it revolves around 3 multi connectors. It won't make much sense to you - and I'm not sure how much of it I understand - but it now all works!!
What I should really do now is make up another loom based on this one but with improved connector placement and neater wiring - but I don't have the energy. Anyway, at the moment everything seems to work well. It'll be just my luck to turn it on and see the whole thing go up in flames! Better get it insured.
Sadly the starter motor is another matter. We've had the starter motor off, cleaned the armature and brushes. The solenoid seems impossible to split as the 2 parts are held together by an internal wire which I didn't want to risk breaking. Squirted it with WD40 and re-assembled everything. Same problem still exists. The solenoid is completing the circuit but the starter doesn't spin. I think I'll try to get it in for an MOT and find out what other faults occur before any further investigation on the starter.
What I should really do now is make up another loom based on this one but with improved connector placement and neater wiring - but I don't have the energy. Anyway, at the moment everything seems to work well. It'll be just my luck to turn it on and see the whole thing go up in flames! Better get it insured.
Sadly the starter motor is another matter. We've had the starter motor off, cleaned the armature and brushes. The solenoid seems impossible to split as the 2 parts are held together by an internal wire which I didn't want to risk breaking. Squirted it with WD40 and re-assembled everything. Same problem still exists. The solenoid is completing the circuit but the starter doesn't spin. I think I'll try to get it in for an MOT and find out what other faults occur before any further investigation on the starter.
Glawster
New member
Thankyou for that useful piece of advice...
.
I filled the rocker cap with petrol and no leaks. Can't see any faults on either gasket surface. I put a rubber O-ring under the affected bolt and bunged a bit of silcone around it. Maybe that will be effective, otherwise I'll have to have a closer look at the head.
Definitely guessing.
No need to go for a long run and get stranded. Just connect a meter across the battery set to read DC volts and start the engine. Look for a reading between 13.6V and 14.6V, preferably just over 14V. If it's not achieving these figures you will get stranded sooner or later
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ducatipaddy
New member
Derek (glawster) complicated haveing two Dereks !! do as bob says put some jump leads across the starter, hold it in a vice or something or it will spin off across the floor. I suspect its just adjustment on the solenoid or burnt connections inside. Check earth on the starter motor as well. If its still on the bike then easy just put a jump lead from the battery to the live on the starter.
If the motor is dead let me know and i will send another.
If the motor is dead let me know and i will send another.
Glawster
New member
Thanks for the advice guys.
The thing about the starter is that is was spinning over OK, both on the bench (it has to be attached to the clutch cover) and in the bike. Then it just started clicking.
The solenoid seems to work well and is supplying power when the contacts close, but the starter doesn’t spin no matter how the rod is adjusted. Also without the rod connected I would have thought when the contacts close it would spin. Maybe it could be the join that I put in the cable from the solenoid to the starter. I connected the cable with a sleeve (from Vehicle Wiring Products) and soldered the wires together. I need to check this.
I got it insured today so thought I’d better give it a run to see if there’s any likelihood it can pass an MOT. I did a few miles to warm it through and these were the first impressions:
Good
• Starts easily on the kickstart.
• After a bit of adjustment to the carbs it runs very well – at least at modest revs.
• Very clean pickup from tickover – which I guess is down to the Sachse ignition.
• Front brakes work well and are finding their way through the rust on the discs. Thanks Paul!
• The O-ring under the rocker bolt seems to have stopped the oil leak.
Bad
• The clutch drags quite badly – even with the engine warmed up. I adjusted the screw in the outer clutch plate and the arm is now very far back in the slot in the selector box. The lever feels like it lifting the clutch a long way….but it still drags.
• Gear selection is terrible. Very heavy action, particulary up changes. I’m just hoping the problem is in the selector box and not within the cases.
• The back brake is a bit of a worry. It’s the one skimmed by Saftek and has new re-lined shoes. The brake binds a bit at certain points and is very long travel. I thought a few firm applications on the move might get it to bite a bit better, but it hardly seems to have any effect.
• The generator light is always on. I can’t get an accurate voltage reading across the battery as my cheap multimeter only reads 0-50V so it’s an impossible scale to differentiate between 12 and 14V. Better try a more accurate instrument. I know I have a circuit through the alternator windings, but I do suspect the voltage regulator might be shot.
I have to say the riding experience does feel a bit weird after riding a GT1000 with 40% more power 15% less weight and 100mm shorter wheelbase – but I reckon with a period of adjustment I’ll get the hang of chucking it around.
I did about 8 miles (and look what it did to the colour of the header pipes) before I ran out of fuel and had to push it half a mile (with the binding back brake) to fill the tank. Not sure I can trust the reserve supply!
Here’s a few pics. I won’t abandon the thread till she’s running completely correctly – so please don’t relax just yet. Time for Paul and Martin to get their Bevel projects finished!
Best regards,
Derek
The thing about the starter is that is was spinning over OK, both on the bench (it has to be attached to the clutch cover) and in the bike. Then it just started clicking.
The solenoid seems to work well and is supplying power when the contacts close, but the starter doesn’t spin no matter how the rod is adjusted. Also without the rod connected I would have thought when the contacts close it would spin. Maybe it could be the join that I put in the cable from the solenoid to the starter. I connected the cable with a sleeve (from Vehicle Wiring Products) and soldered the wires together. I need to check this.
I got it insured today so thought I’d better give it a run to see if there’s any likelihood it can pass an MOT. I did a few miles to warm it through and these were the first impressions:
Good
• Starts easily on the kickstart.
• After a bit of adjustment to the carbs it runs very well – at least at modest revs.
• Very clean pickup from tickover – which I guess is down to the Sachse ignition.
• Front brakes work well and are finding their way through the rust on the discs. Thanks Paul!
• The O-ring under the rocker bolt seems to have stopped the oil leak.
Bad
• The clutch drags quite badly – even with the engine warmed up. I adjusted the screw in the outer clutch plate and the arm is now very far back in the slot in the selector box. The lever feels like it lifting the clutch a long way….but it still drags.
• Gear selection is terrible. Very heavy action, particulary up changes. I’m just hoping the problem is in the selector box and not within the cases.
• The back brake is a bit of a worry. It’s the one skimmed by Saftek and has new re-lined shoes. The brake binds a bit at certain points and is very long travel. I thought a few firm applications on the move might get it to bite a bit better, but it hardly seems to have any effect.
• The generator light is always on. I can’t get an accurate voltage reading across the battery as my cheap multimeter only reads 0-50V so it’s an impossible scale to differentiate between 12 and 14V. Better try a more accurate instrument. I know I have a circuit through the alternator windings, but I do suspect the voltage regulator might be shot.
I have to say the riding experience does feel a bit weird after riding a GT1000 with 40% more power 15% less weight and 100mm shorter wheelbase – but I reckon with a period of adjustment I’ll get the hang of chucking it around.
I did about 8 miles (and look what it did to the colour of the header pipes) before I ran out of fuel and had to push it half a mile (with the binding back brake) to fill the tank. Not sure I can trust the reserve supply!
Here’s a few pics. I won’t abandon the thread till she’s running completely correctly – so please don’t relax just yet. Time for Paul and Martin to get their Bevel projects finished!
Best regards,
Derek
The bike looks terrific Derek, remarkably like my 860GTS of 38 years ago, although it didn't have the reflectors on the sides of the indicators.
I remember the back brake being adequate but not great although the front brake was very good, better than the bevel 900SS that I had next. The master cylinder cylinder was slightly smaller and gave it a better feel. The reserve on the tank was about 8 miles! Your heavy gear change may well be due to the clutch dragging. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out now that the bike is a runner.
I remember the back brake being adequate but not great although the front brake was very good, better than the bevel 900SS that I had next. The master cylinder cylinder was slightly smaller and gave it a better feel. The reserve on the tank was about 8 miles! Your heavy gear change may well be due to the clutch dragging. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out now that the bike is a runner.
Glawster
New member
Derek, those photos you posted earlier in the thread have been my constant source of research for originality. There's a limit to how original you can keep it I suppose and some of the bits that don't please me so much....
- The indicators correctly have the side reflectors on the 1978 bikes - but should be chrome. The ones I've got are NOS Guzzi items. Genuine CEV and with the ugly reflectors, but in black instead of chrome. I picked them up on ebay for £25 for all 4 which was a bargain. Maybe I can get the plastic chromed?
- The handlebars are just what I could find. I'd love to find some Ducati originals which are a bit lower.
- The Keihan exhaust is beautifully made, but the header pipe angles aren't as elegant as the originals.
- The headlamp beam unit is something Japanese.
- Couldn't get Marzocchi shocks so I had to get Hagon.
I'm sure it wouldn't pass muster in an originality competition, but it's good enough for me.
And Paddy got me the final piece de resistance - an original tool tray in near perfect condition!
- The indicators correctly have the side reflectors on the 1978 bikes - but should be chrome. The ones I've got are NOS Guzzi items. Genuine CEV and with the ugly reflectors, but in black instead of chrome. I picked them up on ebay for £25 for all 4 which was a bargain. Maybe I can get the plastic chromed?
- The handlebars are just what I could find. I'd love to find some Ducati originals which are a bit lower.
- The Keihan exhaust is beautifully made, but the header pipe angles aren't as elegant as the originals.
- The headlamp beam unit is something Japanese.
- Couldn't get Marzocchi shocks so I had to get Hagon.
I'm sure it wouldn't pass muster in an originality competition, but it's good enough for me.
And Paddy got me the final piece de resistance - an original tool tray in near perfect condition!
MartinW
New member
looking lovely. Yes, I really need to get my finger out. Today's excuse was that my neighbour was moving house and needed help. His wife is very pregnant and his 74 year-old dad is very fit but it's still wrong to push him so much. I had just returned from a trip to the physio for my back but that sounds so much like an excuse that I had to pitch in and help. Whoever took his furniture apart did not understand the concept of unscrewing but di like hammering...
ducatipaddy
New member
A real credit to you Derek, well done mate As teething troubles go yours aren't to bad
As teething troubles go yours aren't to bad Looks really lovely, reminds me of looking at a new one in Jack Lilley's, Shepperton when I was 19.
If mine turns out half as nicely I will be a very happy man.
With respect to the clutch, mine used to drag even after a new set of plates; So I asked Brook Henry and here is his reply:-
If mine turns out half as nicely I will be a very happy man.
With respect to the clutch, mine used to drag even after a new set of plates; So I asked Brook Henry and here is his reply:-
Brook Henry said:
Glawster
New member
Hi Paul,
That sounds an entirely plausible solution to the clutch drag issue. Many thanks.
In any case I have to take the clutch cover off as one of the starter cover screw threads has had it and needs a helicoil inserted.
Also will provide an opportunity to test the starter motor.
And here's me thinking I'd just fire it up and it would all run sweetly!
That sounds an entirely plausible solution to the clutch drag issue. Many thanks.
In any case I have to take the clutch cover off as one of the starter cover screw threads has had it and needs a helicoil inserted.
Also will provide an opportunity to test the starter motor.
And here's me thinking I'd just fire it up and it would all run sweetly!