That's exactly the problem!
Another 900 GTS story. The Black Pig
- Thread starter Glawster
- Start date
Glawster
New member
This wiring lark is really starting to drain the enthusiasm from me - mainly because I don't really see the big picture, following a wiring diagram but not really understanding it. I have a Darmah wiring loom sourced from Ian Gowanloch – but it’s very different from the GTS so I decided not to use that. Instead I bought wire, connectors, fuse box etc from Vehicle Wiring Products in Ilkeston. They really couldn’t be more helpful – I even got a lesson on how to use the crimping tool on my first visit!
The closest wiring diagram I could find was for an 860 GTS with the original switchgear – the blue button type with the indicators on the right. I couldn’t find a diagram with the later CEV switchgear. The main issue is that half the wiring seems to go through an “engine stop relay” in the headlamp. I don’t have this and I’m kind of assuming I don’t need it as I’m ditching the Elletrotechnica ignition system – which appears to be self generating. Any comments on this would be appreciated.
The Sachse ignition system is not without it’s problems. I bought this from Andrew at Mdina as Sachse have been closed since Volker’s death – so unfortunately no technical service available from there. The problem is that as supplied the crankcase plug can’t be fitted as it fouls on the front engine mount.
Andy my engineer friend has had to take a bit of metal from the case to allow the plug to be fitted. Lucky the engine is split or I’ve no idea how this problem would have been solved.
Regarding the electronic ignition box my neighbour Pat contrived a beautiful little platform for it that attaches to the horn mounting bolt – and has the additional benefit of providing a hanger for the flasher unit. A neat solution to use the space behind the headstock which is quickly filling up with electrical bits
The closest wiring diagram I could find was for an 860 GTS with the original switchgear – the blue button type with the indicators on the right. I couldn’t find a diagram with the later CEV switchgear. The main issue is that half the wiring seems to go through an “engine stop relay” in the headlamp. I don’t have this and I’m kind of assuming I don’t need it as I’m ditching the Elletrotechnica ignition system – which appears to be self generating. Any comments on this would be appreciated.
The Sachse ignition system is not without it’s problems. I bought this from Andrew at Mdina as Sachse have been closed since Volker’s death – so unfortunately no technical service available from there. The problem is that as supplied the crankcase plug can’t be fitted as it fouls on the front engine mount.
Andy my engineer friend has had to take a bit of metal from the case to allow the plug to be fitted. Lucky the engine is split or I’ve no idea how this problem would have been solved.
Regarding the electronic ignition box my neighbour Pat contrived a beautiful little platform for it that attaches to the horn mounting bolt – and has the additional benefit of providing a hanger for the flasher unit. A neat solution to use the space behind the headstock which is quickly filling up with electrical bits
ducatipaddy
New member
Hi Derek
I think your save on the plug is a good move, should do the job
I'm not so sure about your ignition box. I can see that in a high frequency vibration and i am not sure how long that bracket will last, my guess is its 14swg or 2mm alloy sheet, it will fracture.
The safe way is to attach the bracket on at least 2 points and mount the ignition unit on rubber mounts on the bracket. Its just my opinion and not the law
I think your save on the plug is a good move, should do the job
I'm not so sure about your ignition box. I can see that in a high frequency vibration and i am not sure how long that bracket will last, my guess is its 14swg or 2mm alloy sheet, it will fracture.
The safe way is to attach the bracket on at least 2 points and mount the ignition unit on rubber mounts on the bracket. Its just my opinion and not the law
Glawster
New member
Hi Bob,
This is the wiring diagram I'm using. Not sure if the Haynes is the same or different? I took this one from Ian Falloon's Bevel Twin Restoration guide that I got for Xmas. I should have bought the book earlier as I wouldn't have had to ask every GTS owner in the UK to measure their tank stripes! Anyway I'll PM you.
Paddy,
This platform is the MK2, made with what Pat could lay his hands on in half an hour. I'm sure if it fails, the MK3 version will be in polished stainless....
By the way, I also had to take back my crank to Godden. Although the crank journals were set the right distance apart, the crankpin was sitting proud of the journal at one side and scraped against the main bearing on it's way round! Now they've pushed it through the other way to balance it up a bit. Not what I was expecting from Godden - but to be fair they did put it right while I waited.
This is the wiring diagram I'm using. Not sure if the Haynes is the same or different? I took this one from Ian Falloon's Bevel Twin Restoration guide that I got for Xmas. I should have bought the book earlier as I wouldn't have had to ask every GTS owner in the UK to measure their tank stripes! Anyway I'll PM you.
Paddy,
This platform is the MK2, made with what Pat could lay his hands on in half an hour. I'm sure if it fails, the MK3 version will be in polished stainless....
By the way, I also had to take back my crank to Godden. Although the crank journals were set the right distance apart, the crankpin was sitting proud of the journal at one side and scraped against the main bearing on it's way round! Now they've pushed it through the other way to balance it up a bit. Not what I was expecting from Godden - but to be fair they did put it right while I waited.
ducatipaddy
New member
Vibration is an important factor. I'm not just being picky
Can i recommend you all buy Ian Falloons new book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ducati-Beve...ZTM_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389730755&sr=1-5
This has every detail on every Bevel including 30 pages on electrics and wiring diagrams. Most definitely the must have book of bevel Ducati's.
Glawster
New member
That's the one Santa brought me Paddy - it's excellent. I'll be looking for ways to support the ignition unit once I've got all the other electrics in place (which will be about September at this rate).
Another couple of books I got this Xmas are by Tom Bailey on Ducati Singles
This one and there's also a workshop manual.
http://www.eurojamb.com/ducati-singles-first-person-by-tom-bailey-a-great-read-p-1398.html
The First Person book is brilliant - mostly a series of anecdotes regarding working on Ducatis in the 60's. Very entertaining.
Another couple of books I got this Xmas are by Tom Bailey on Ducati Singles
This one and there's also a workshop manual.
http://www.eurojamb.com/ducati-singles-first-person-by-tom-bailey-a-great-read-p-1398.html
The First Person book is brilliant - mostly a series of anecdotes regarding working on Ducatis in the 60's. Very entertaining.
I don't currently have a bevel but if I did I wouldn't be without that book. It seems to have Falloon's usual attention to detail and I suspect would be very hard to fault. It looks like a total mine of information. I didn't realise how much stuff I never knew and how much I've forgotten 
Glawster
New member
Tomorrow the engine's coming home! The primary drive / clutch still needs fitting as the Sachse ignition stator needs setting for tdc first. Also I guess it will be easier to get it in the frame withoug the outer covers on.
I'm just trying to test the starter motor solenoid as It'll be a lot more difficult to access once the engine's in. When I push the starter button the relay is clicking, but I was expecting the solenoid to move as well and it seems dead. It did work before I stripped the bike down. Would it need to be first wired to the starter motor before it will work? Not sure that I have the battery and starter motor wires the right way round? The third wire is from the relay and I had to solder it on as the tang was broken off. Any opinions welcome!
I'm just trying to test the starter motor solenoid as It'll be a lot more difficult to access once the engine's in. When I push the starter button the relay is clicking, but I was expecting the solenoid to move as well and it seems dead. It did work before I stripped the bike down. Would it need to be first wired to the starter motor before it will work? Not sure that I have the battery and starter motor wires the right way round? The third wire is from the relay and I had to solder it on as the tang was broken off. Any opinions welcome!
Derek
Derek is nearly correct in that connecting the black wire to the +12v positive terminal of a battery, and the metal body of the solenoid to the -12v negitive terminal should indeed energise the coil in the solenoid and make the connection between the starter terminals. If you have a multimeter check the continuity on ohms accross the starter terminals to make sure that you have a circuit, job done.
Scott
Derek is nearly correct in that connecting the black wire to the +12v positive terminal of a battery, and the metal body of the solenoid to the -12v negitive terminal should indeed energise the coil in the solenoid and make the connection between the starter terminals. If you have a multimeter check the continuity on ohms accross the starter terminals to make sure that you have a circuit, job done.
Scott
You're being pedantic Scott
- If it clunks it's usually ok but it's possible that the contacts don't connect.
Absolutely Dear Boy!
ducatipaddy
New member
If it doesn't clank give me a shout and i will send you a new old one
SD- SSD Seat mounting bolts
Paddy
On another note that we spoke about last week Iam getting these bolts made up in Stainless, do you want some too? not going to be expensive.
Same as this, as shown on Andrews Mdina site.
http://www.mdinaitalia.co.uk/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=080185354
Scott
Paddy
On another note that we spoke about last week Iam getting these bolts made up in Stainless, do you want some too? not going to be expensive.
Same as this, as shown on Andrews Mdina site.
http://www.mdinaitalia.co.uk/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=080185354
Scott
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ducatipaddy
New member
Cheers Scott but i will leave that sort of thing to Andrew. I ,really want to stick to used parts or it opens a whole new kettle of fish
Glawster
New member
I know this engine was nowhere near as bad condition as Paul's Dark Side of the Moon project - and probably everyone's sick of seeing another shiny bevel engine...but it looks so good I'm thinking to just put it on the dining room table and admire it.
If you cast your mind back I started with 2 engines. This one donated the crankcases, oil pump and some of the gearbox.
And now it looks a bit nicer.
Still needs the timing of the Sachse igntion setting before the primary drive and clutch are added. Looks like some attention will be needed to keep the wire away from the flywheel starter ring or it will get shredded.
If you cast your mind back I started with 2 engines. This one donated the crankcases, oil pump and some of the gearbox.
And now it looks a bit nicer.
Still needs the timing of the Sachse igntion setting before the primary drive and clutch are added. Looks like some attention will be needed to keep the wire away from the flywheel starter ring or it will get shredded.
Glawster
New member
And it's in the frame...
I have to say, for such a big and heavy engine it was dead easy to put it back in the bike - even without the recommended trolley jack.
Pat came round and my wife and son were also press ganged into service. We just chocked up the engine on some bits of timber and lifted the bike onto it, getting the bottom rear mounting bolt in first. Then just lifted the front cylinder with a scissor jack to line up the other 2 bolts and it's done. If only everything were this easy!
I have to say, for such a big and heavy engine it was dead easy to put it back in the bike - even without the recommended trolley jack.
Pat came round and my wife and son were also press ganged into service. We just chocked up the engine on some bits of timber and lifted the bike onto it, getting the bottom rear mounting bolt in first. Then just lifted the front cylinder with a scissor jack to line up the other 2 bolts and it's done. If only everything were this easy!
Glawster
New member
Just a few notes on setting up the Sachse Electronic Ignition timing. The instructions are translated from German, but not in a way that makes it easy to understand in English!
Once you have it connected then it becomes more clear, but with an electric start motor the flywheel complicates things.
Here’s the stator plate fitted with the screws finger tight and a timing mark (in red) on the crankcase webbing at the top.
When the ignition is on 2 LEDs light up
However, with the flywheel fitted (the rotor is bolted to the inside of the flywheel) of course the LEDs are only visible through the 3 holes.
After marking TDC and BDC of the front cylinder…start at BDC and turn on the ignition.
Then go and turn off the garage lights so you can see the glow from behind the flywheel.
Turn the engine up to TDC. The lower LED for the front cylinder should go out exactly at TDC. You really have to have darkness to see it, along with a torch to see the TDC marks.
To adjust it it you have to take off the flywheel, move the plate a bit….and repeat.
After about 4 tries I’ve got it (I hope)
It should be much easier on a kickstart engine as the LEDs are visible. On the Darmah it’s different as the stator is mounted to the outer cover – so they give you an LED to connect to the ignition control box. Frankly speaking I think it would be better if this was included in every kit.
The gland where the wire exits the crankcase is a thing of beauty compared to the Ducati item.
Anyway, this might be helpful in future for anyone who buys a similar system – assuming they continue trading after Volker Sachse’s death.
Once you have it connected then it becomes more clear, but with an electric start motor the flywheel complicates things.
Here’s the stator plate fitted with the screws finger tight and a timing mark (in red) on the crankcase webbing at the top.
When the ignition is on 2 LEDs light up
However, with the flywheel fitted (the rotor is bolted to the inside of the flywheel) of course the LEDs are only visible through the 3 holes.
After marking TDC and BDC of the front cylinder…start at BDC and turn on the ignition.
Then go and turn off the garage lights so you can see the glow from behind the flywheel.
Turn the engine up to TDC. The lower LED for the front cylinder should go out exactly at TDC. You really have to have darkness to see it, along with a torch to see the TDC marks.
To adjust it it you have to take off the flywheel, move the plate a bit….and repeat.
After about 4 tries I’ve got it (I hope)
It should be much easier on a kickstart engine as the LEDs are visible. On the Darmah it’s different as the stator is mounted to the outer cover – so they give you an LED to connect to the ignition control box. Frankly speaking I think it would be better if this was included in every kit.
The gland where the wire exits the crankcase is a thing of beauty compared to the Ducati item.
Anyway, this might be helpful in future for anyone who buys a similar system – assuming they continue trading after Volker Sachse’s death.
Hello Derek, I missed this!
Engine looks absolutely fantastic and particularly bonny in the frame; You've done a crackin' job so far.
Engine looks absolutely fantastic and particularly bonny in the frame; You've done a crackin' job so far.
ducatipaddy
New member
I bought a complete 900GTS today in bits....and half another....with CMA wheels. Very odd.
ducatipaddy
New member
sure to have ...........somewhere drop me a line Derek if you want a set. I have so many requests these days i have had to come up with a system of Email folders so i dont forget anyone. I got so many people verbally asking or mentioning they wanted bits its impossible to remember everyone especially those that want me to look out for things i don't have ..at present
drop me a line Derek if you want a set. I have so many requests these days i have had to come up with a system of Email folders so i dont forget anyone. I got so many people verbally asking or mentioning they wanted bits its impossible to remember everyone especially those that want me to look out for things i don't have ..at present 
MartinW
New member
Sounds like you need a glamorous assistant. I am bombarded with photos of exceptionally equipped young ladies who, it appears, are looking for older men to help. The same people considerately send me offers of chemical assistance if I feel insecure about my ability to satisfy their rapacity. I'm sure that you could find someone. Hope this helps...
ducatipaddy
New member
Nahh !!! been there done that !! I now live on my own and i bloody love it