The Hardly Dangerous takes on the GT1000

Most mags are saying it is a step forward for HD but they are still way off the mark with power/weight/vibration/quality!

So if MCN go any different it is even more discreditation......
 
Steve748 said:
I bet they propagate the usual crap about Ducati unreliability as usual :mad:
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I have it on good authority that a good article on Ducati, the 1098R and D16RR is in MCN next week. I'd be disappointed if this turned into a Ducati bashing contest... it's my bl00dy 1098R they've been using. I'm relatively new to the Ducati scene, first one was a 999bp in 2002, since then I've had 999R Fila Rep, 998 Matrix, 999R Xerox, 1098R, Hypermottard 1100s and now D16RR, I can say I have had NO reliability issues with any. If all this relates to the "old" bikes - then it's time they moved on and updated the story. Ducati is, without DOUBT or QUESTION, the most desirable bikes on the planet bar NONE. They have the range PERFECT, the new monster is STUNNING, the Hyper is as COOL as F***, the Multi is UNIQUE, the 1098 is AWESOME, and the D16RR is the best piece of 2 wheeled engineering EVER. There, that sorted them.... HD, BMW, Japs, NOTHING comes near to the Ducati range at the moment.
 
interesting, if I had some cash now I would buy the Griso, having seen the XR1200r in that article I would seriously consider one. Ducati do some nice stuff, but nothing from the new range really appeals to me like the Moto Guzzi and now maybe the HD.
 
Brave man Steve, but I can see the appeal of the Griso. I like the Sport myself after seeing one in Switzerland last year and at the bike shows this year. Quite a few of the new ducatis are very nearly right, just not quite. I'll stick with my multi just now and the F4 is absolutely staying in my ownership until it rusts or, more than likely were I live, gets nicked!
 
hmm, i can't agree Stuart, yes, on the reliability as i think Ducati were right up there now, my bikes have been faultless more than can be said for my guzzi and BM'er but as for range its 2 dimensional and bland and the competition is moving on. I'll discount the DD as its not available but the current SBK line faces competition from KTM, BM Aprilia V4 and just doesn't "do it" for me, I wish it did :( the hyper? nice but the Bimota DB8 concept bike is a better example of whats achievable with a Duc motor and i really don't see anyone at Ducati coming up with a design as good as that somehow, way more attention to detail,. multi? great bike i've had 2 but once again an old design and the faults still aren't fixed, a GS or possibly even TDM does it better, I'd love to have another one but whilst its chain driven and with the high costs of big mileage running I can't do it, sport classics, another PT design and once again been around a while without any work, too high pricing for a market where Triumph dominate (sic) and now facing competition from the MG V7 and possibly a LeMans classic in November. Monster? a marketing mans photoshop collage of hornet, brutale and b king wheras bikes like the mana are an attempt to do things differently . ST oh yeah, gone now so nothing for the sport tourers. IMHO a very SBK focused line which is limited when compares things to the European rivals KTM, MG, Aprilia and BM are diversifying whilst Ducati focus on core products in a market that will suffer as the global finacial problems bite.

Its a very limited range, there isn't a single bike I'd consider as somewhere out there a competitor thats just got the spark or function that attracts me and I'm afraid the journos probably see things the same way and without red tinted specs hence why the press can be negative at times.

Sorry to be so cynical but as a Ducati and Italian bike fan for many years its frustrating to see them getting left behind on product , I know the history is racing but the reason they've grown QC improved etc was because they moved into new areas like Sport Classic, multi and hyper but the guy that had the ideas has now gone!

DB8 to drool over :D

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Biscuitandpotato said:
interesting, if I had some cash now I would buy the Griso, having seen the XR1200r in that article I would seriously consider one. Ducati do some nice stuff, but nothing from the new range really appeals to me like the Moto Guzzi and now maybe the HD.
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Tread warily if you're considering a Griso. A friend of our bought one a couple of years ago and the dealer service was abyssmal. Also the overall build quality and finish were disappointing to say the least.:eek:

Lovely looking bike but did not live up to his expectations.:(
 
mbg said:
Tread warily if you're considering a Griso. A friend of our bought one a couple of years ago and the dealer service was abyssmal. Also the overall build quality and finish were disappointing to say the least.:eek:

Lovely looking bike but did not live up to his expectations.:(
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yup, almost the same for me, dealer was ok but overall build and quality poor, probably where Ducati were 15 years ago.
 
I like my duc. I always have liked my ducs, and there have been odd issues with some of em.
But I really really do like my ktm and if i'm honest I get more grins per mile from the ktm than the duc. The emotions are completely different for each bike, so I'm siding 60/40 ktm/duc at the moment.
Dyperretard didn't do it for me close up on inspection cos too many bits and bobs that could have been finished better.
Same goes for (wait for it) DDR (or whatever acronym it is). both looked like fantastic thought projects and a lot of work gone into them but somehow the end finished result was missing little finishing details.
The Bimota - nice. But again for me it looks like too many disjointed parts that could have been better co-ordinatd. It's got it all there but why leave the carbon as carbon finish when it could be more 'blended' for want of a better word. It is really nice but not aesthetically complete for me (same as the bimota in Woods at the moment http://www.woodsmotorcycles.co.uk/motor.db5r-15037.htm ).
My 2p.
 
I suppose they leave the carbon as carbon finish because it is perceived as expensive, if your going to spend loads on carbon let everyone know about it. The race bikes only paint their carbon because they are paid to
 
Fair do's. But check out the rear peg hangars. Why put an alloy block between the hangar and the frame when a smoother flowing line could have been to put the hangar straight to the frame? Bloody nice bike but I couldn't live with that. (Doh! tried zooming in and it might be a cover?)
 
Alan, the real clever bit with the Bimota is the way Robbiano designed the engine hanger alloy bit ( and rear wheel axle clamps), because they make very small numbers it gets expensive tooling for frames, by linking tubes with the alloy casting they can make a number of different geometries simply by bolting different tubes (or brackets) in. Bimotas aren't "production" finished to get a good quality the price would be crazy, their costs are in the tooling and tiny qty can't recoup that. I like most of the current range and didn't understand why Ducati don't use the db5 as inspiration for a new SS??
 
The DB8 looks like the love child of a meccano set, a spyrograph and lego technics. It just looks wrong, as do most Bimota's, to me. But what do I know, I got a fatty looking at the new Fireblade in white and black the other day :o
 
Gizmo said:
Alan, the real clever bit with the Bimota is the way Robbiano designed the engine hanger alloy bit ( and rear wheel axle clamps), because they make very small numbers it gets expensive tooling for frames, by linking tubes with the alloy casting they can make a number of different geometries simply by bolting different tubes (or brackets) in. Bimotas aren't "production" finished to get a good quality the price would be crazy, their costs are in the tooling and tiny qty can't recoup that. I like most of the current range and didn't understand why Ducati don't use the db5 as inspiration for a new SS??
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Take each part on it's own and it is really exquisite and balanced and clean...but for me it's like sticking a DG bag on a Bentley parcel shelf - they are both beautiful in their own right but put together they don't 'fit' (imo).
The bit that does look totally in tune and bang to rights is the lower fork stantion - angled just right for the forks and bike.
 
Biscuitandpotato said:
The DB8 looks like the love child of a meccano set, a spyrograph and lego technics. It just looks wrong, as do most Bimota's, to me. But what do I know, I got a fatty looking at the new Fireblade in white and black the other day :o
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I was just thinking the lego/meccano thing myself! Perhaps it IS a new Lego kit and Bimota have stuck a few stickers on one and scaled up the picture?

I got a fatty looking at the 16 year old girls on Scarborough sea front Tuesday evening. :D
 
A Reply For Gizmo

Hi Mike, wow what a thread this has turned out to be... Your points are very valid, but I still think Ducati in 2008/2009 HAS the range right, OK with some notable flaws. Yes the sports tourer side of the market has been let down badly, the Sports Classics are great, but will appeal to a fairly limited audience. If we look at where Ducati were 3-4 years ago, the 1098/848 have most certainly revived the brand. Who can tell me the total 999's sold, compared to the 1098's so far ???? Martin ??? - WORLDWIDE this is.

Are there other bikes out there, of course there is, the Bimota you pictured is STUNNING, I have to say, with a choice of LOOKS between the Bimota and Hyper who wins ???? NOT the Hyper sadly.

But then we move slightly beyond the bike... for me, Ducati is a bit more than just a bike, it's the Ferrari of two wheels, it's a LIFESTYLE, and yes, a bit of SNOBBERY too. The MV / Bimotas / KTM's / Aprilias haven't really got that. Of any of the bikes I have owned since 19** nothing has compared to the ownership experience, and for me, that counts for something.

Finally, whilst the MV and Bimota most certainly have the LOOKS, not totally convinced on the dealer network / support / reliability / values etc.

AND - they don't have a great forum like this either :D :D :D

OH, just added this. One thing I was disappointed with in Ducati was NO 125. Her indoors just done her CBT, Aprilia do the cutest 125 EVER (at a price :eek: ) but I feel Ducati are missing a trick here... get people bitten by the bug early, and they are customers for life !!!
 
Some very unexpected views here!
I've been drawn to Duc's for years now, ever since I saw my first 400 desmo in the seventies (at the time I had a D14/4 so it was waaay out of my reach).
I am thrilled with my 749 and don't expect to ever part with it, maybe one day it will be recognized more generally as the brilliant bike it is, but TBH I don't give a siht whether it is or not. What does bother me is that there is not a single current Ducati I like.....Lower specs for higher prices and a loss of detail finish quality,popularist design by committee.
Bikes that I want to own now? RC8 top of the list, Super Duke, earlier F4 if I could find a good one at a sensible price.
 
Ducati have sold loads more 1098/848 than 999/749 but is volume what Ducati are about? The years they created the image for me - 888/916 era ( before that it was MV and Laverda) I'd bet you could count production on an abacus, thats what made them desirable. I know they have to survive and will make decisions to do so but as with everything in life there is a price, volume means mass market accesibility and as that happens the uniqueness and yes, brand snobbery goes which is probably why I look elsewhere now sadly cos I like owning something quirky ( other than the GS which really is a clone bike). The reason I bought he MG was because of that desire for exclusivity, a big mistake as the product and back up was hopeless but you need to be a certain size to give that, Catch 22 :)

I'm hoping the rumoured multi replacement (Strada Aperta what a name!) is what I want and isn't just a facelift if not I can see me just keeping the 999 and GS.

Its interesting times as to how a mid size company can survive and keep its loyal fan base , it needs a balance but at the moment it seems like its very SBK/marketing led.

Oh yes, an RS125, I wish we had kept Linzi's its one of the best bikes to ride as you have to get everything right, no brake dabbing, exact gear shifts and as much corner speed as you can carry hmm maybe an RS250 is next :) actually , there was that Cagiva supermono, oh sh1t there's me looking at other brands again :D
 
stirrup said:
Some very unexpected views here!
I've been drawn to Duc's for years now, ever since I saw my first 400 desmo in the seventies (at the time I had a D14/4 so it was waaay out of my reach).
I am thrilled with my 749 and don't expect to ever part with it, maybe one day it will be recognized more generally as the brilliant bike it is, but TBH I don't give a siht whether it is or not. What does bother me is that there is not a single current Ducati I like.....Lower specs for higher prices and a loss of detail finish quality,popularist design by committee.
Bikes that I want to own now? RC8 top of the list, Super Duke, earlier F4 if I could find a good one at a sensible price.
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my thoughts exactly, ducati now have a bucket with a hole at the bottom, luckily the top keeps getting filled faster than they lose fans but they need to plug the leak! its strange that its long time Ducati fans that see it like this, maybe we've just got the red tinted glasses from age and memories :D :D
 
....Just picked up on this thread and spent the last few minutes reading through every post. Yes some very interesting opinions and thoughts put down on paper (screen).
For my part, I just can't do 'mass market', I have always craved exclusivity, rarity and small production. I don't really want to air my opinions on all what's out there as I would need Mb of space.
I have watched with sadness how the motorcycle market and it's riders has changed since the era of the RC30 or 916 came along and changed the course of motorcycle history.
I feel the era of the 'olde-world' enthusiast is dead. The era when you'd stop at the side of the road to mend what had gone wrong with ease. The era of revolution, where breakthroughs were made both in design and markets. Exotic Motorcycles, these days are as much fashion statements as designer clothing is. I get irritated when I hear that someone has never even removed the fairing panels to look at whats underneath, let alone working on their bike.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that not everyone wants to get their hands dirty and wants just to ride and enjoy their bike. This is just my opinion that's all and I'm not putting everyone in one pigeonhole.

I feel that the likes of Ducati these days it's all about shifting 'units', I appreciate that they wouldn't be here now if they hadn't moved with the times, but I just preferred the time when they were producing very limited numbers of exlcusive bikes to diserning customers who didn't bat an eye-lid when something fell off or they had to stop on the side of the road and mend it (and could!).
I guess I'm stuck in a time-warp and like to 'tinker' with my bike - sometimes just for hell of it!

...I'll shut down again now!! :p :o
 
I too find myself less drawn to the newer Ducati models, perhaps its the designs trying to appeal to a broader market or something, I cant quite put my finger on the reason.
Maybe this is also why I was so taken with the sportclassic range, what the press fail to take into account when buying these bikes is the desire for a particular type of bike, whether it be MG, Ducati or Harley. If you like a particular bike then you'll find the good reasons for having one and play down the drawbacks. I dont give a monkeys about comfort- which is the main gripe about the S in my garage, some have complained about the forks- I dont ride hard enough for this to be a worry, I persuaded myself I wanted this particular bike,probably like most on here and no amount of reports by journalists who probably wont even remember what they wrote by the time its published, will make me change my opinions.
I will be interested to see what the new Strada replacement will be though.
 
If Ducati are the Ferrari of the bike world then where are Bimota? IMO a product difficult to pigeon hole especially as they use the best engines that are available at the time. So you could with some justification still be loyal to the Ducati brand owning a Bimota with a Ducati engine in it! By the same token, I wouldn't buy a Bimota with an R1 engine in it! They have always seemed to show the world the lead in the style and design of the latest bikes, so much so that for me they take a bit of 'getting used to' (Remember seeing the first Sierra in the early 80's? They all look a bit like that now!) The quality has always been there on a Bimota with a high price to match :eek: When you are buying something exclusive then the higher price is to be expected and if I could afford it then I would buy it :) In the days when I had the RGS the 851 came out and I could remember seeing my first ones in the flesh being tested by Grant Leonard and another guy at Mallory ILOC track day. Then it had stunningly good looks and an 'out of reach price for me' price tag. I really wanted one until the 916 came out. When I first saw one of those I just spent about half an hour looking at it. At the moment there is only the D16rr in the current line up that has given me the same thoughts and I have not yet seen one in the flesh.
I think the lack of a 125cc in the Ducati line up is a mistake as well. There must be a donor engine Ducati could use from another manufacturer, have it cast up with Ducati on the crankcases and design a bike with 916 or 848 type styling. I think it would sell in shedloads :)
 
Steve748 said:
I think the lack of a 125cc in the Ducati line up is a mistake as well. There must be a donor engine Ducati could use from another manufacturer, have it cast up with Ducati on the crankcases and design a bike with 916 or 848 type styling. I think it would sell in shedloads :)
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It's already out there....

Cagiva Mito.......


Ducati now are a getting to be a small exclusive manufacturer(price tags) with more mass market products.

Some of the designs were market leading and some they followed a path already trod by other manufacturers.
Personally I don't see enough of a differential anymore so that Ducati are a cut above.

Twin cylinder sports bikes..... KTM, Aprilla, BMW

Hypomoto's ..... KTM, BMW, Aprilla, Husq'ies etc

Multi-purpose(Multistrada).... Triumph, Honda, MotoGuzzi, Suzuki etc

Retro..... Triumph, MotoGuzzi etc...


It isn't just the market segments, no manufacturer can go on and on creating niche areas but they can have stand out designs.......

Come on Ducati, rediscover your soul.
 
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