1980 900SS rebuild...
- Thread starter Vacant Possession
- Start date
Running in guidelines...
I have been following what I consider good sense when running in and also the guidelines in my old 860GT manual which are:-
Since then and up to 620 miles, I have let the engine rev up to 5,000 with gentle throttle openings. In truth, it isn't hard to run the bike in. It is more of a question of planning what I am going to do so I don 't *have* to load the engine. You can move along really quite quickly with 5,000 RPM available, even with light throttle openings. So I have been able to have some fun. I don't think the roads in West Sussex are quite as exciting as the Brecon Beacons or the Highlands, but it's pretty nice with some lovely roads.
It seems I am going to have to continue to be well behaved until the bike has settled down, apparently at around 1,860 miles. I am planning on achieving that by next Spring.
The 900SS manual has different guidelines:-
Which are a bit looser, specifying that 5,500 shouldn't be exceeded. I am all right there as I stuck to 4,500 for the first bit. I have only just started using 5,500 at 620 miles.
I have been following what I consider good sense when running in and also the guidelines in my old 860GT manual which are:-
- So I stuck to the following for the first 200 miles:-
- very gentle throttle openings
- selecting the right gear for the job so the engine was not heavily loaded
- staying above 3,000 RPM and below 4,500 RPM
Since then and up to 620 miles, I have let the engine rev up to 5,000 with gentle throttle openings. In truth, it isn't hard to run the bike in. It is more of a question of planning what I am going to do so I don 't *have* to load the engine. You can move along really quite quickly with 5,000 RPM available, even with light throttle openings. So I have been able to have some fun. I don't think the roads in West Sussex are quite as exciting as the Brecon Beacons or the Highlands, but it's pretty nice with some lovely roads.
It seems I am going to have to continue to be well behaved until the bike has settled down, apparently at around 1,860 miles. I am planning on achieving that by next Spring.
The 900SS manual has different guidelines:-
Which are a bit looser, specifying that 5,500 shouldn't be exceeded. I am all right there as I stuck to 4,500 for the first bit. I have only just started using 5,500 at 620 miles.
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Snagging: Idle air adjustment...
My bike has always seemed to have a Mr Hyde side to starting.
I have been hoping that the full rebuild might cure that but it seems it comes down to carburation; It isn't just idling that is affected by the idle air screw, it is low or no throttle openings when on the move. My bike used to pop on the overrun and when slowing down.
I have the original carbs for the engine, ally tops an' all but they need vapour blasting/refurbishing so I am using my new plastic topper 40mm's which is good as they are almost brand new. I know any problems are not down to wear, as with the (new) engine. They have done perhaps 1,500 miles.
My 860GT has a simple section on idle set up which really helped...
Which I followed and what a difference! both front & rear cylinder are now set to about 1 5/8's of a turn out and the popping has stopped, starting is immeasurably improved with far fewer backfires. It used to backfire and then sulk; It also had a built in crowd detector and would choose the most embarrassing moment to flounce off in a huff.
The 900SS has different guidelines...
If anyone has wise words or a really good step by step set of clear procedures and explanation, I'd be very interested and grateful.
For me, winding the air mixture adjusting screw in might speed up the idle but introduces backfires & pops. I'd like to know how to do it properly.
My bike has always seemed to have a Mr Hyde side to starting.
I have been hoping that the full rebuild might cure that but it seems it comes down to carburation; It isn't just idling that is affected by the idle air screw, it is low or no throttle openings when on the move. My bike used to pop on the overrun and when slowing down.
I have the original carbs for the engine, ally tops an' all but they need vapour blasting/refurbishing so I am using my new plastic topper 40mm's which is good as they are almost brand new. I know any problems are not down to wear, as with the (new) engine. They have done perhaps 1,500 miles.
My 860GT has a simple section on idle set up which really helped...
Which I followed and what a difference! both front & rear cylinder are now set to about 1 5/8's of a turn out and the popping has stopped, starting is immeasurably improved with far fewer backfires. It used to backfire and then sulk; It also had a built in crowd detector and would choose the most embarrassing moment to flounce off in a huff.
The 900SS has different guidelines...
If anyone has wise words or a really good step by step set of clear procedures and explanation, I'd be very interested and grateful.
For me, winding the air mixture adjusting screw in might speed up the idle but introduces backfires & pops. I'd like to know how to do it properly.
DrD
New member
Dellorto set up covered at: http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/dellorto_guide/dellorto.html (you probably know about that anyway)
She's run in!
I passed the magical 1,600 mile mark about 1 1/2 weeks ago and did the big oil change on Sunday. Having to remove the vertical downpipe & LH Conti is a pain! Ducati could have put in a nice little bend in the downpipe so that the oil could be changed, but that would have been too easy. I ran the motor in with Morris V Twin 20w/50; I bought a 25 litre drum which seemed the most cost effective way of buying it. The motor is now full of £85 worth of AMSOil 20-50; After changing the filter, removing the plugs, removing the crankshaft end plug priming the engine until it squirted out of the crankshaft end inspection hole, I started the engine and I was surprised that it *did* sound different - smoother, quieter. All good so far.
This oil had done about 1,100 miles and I was intensely curious how things were settling in so no one will be surprised that I drained the oil through our flour sifter and then dismantled the oil filter to inspect what had come adrift in the last part of running in.
The good news is there was *absolutely nothing* captured in the sifter from oil from the sump. There was *zip* in the gauze oil filter & magnet. There was *nada* on the oil dipstick magnet - all clean & shiny! There was the thinnest patina on the ring magnet under the filter. I would have shown this but I dropped it in the dust which didn't help.
I was quite excited at this point (I have a quiet life) and dismantled the filter which doesn't take long. There were some small particles but the good news is that is where they stayed.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
All in all, I am very pleased.
One annoyance I will pass on is that I wish I hadn't first run the engine with flushing oil; The 15 minutes off load running may well have cleaned out reassembly flotsam but it also coated the wet clutch in goodness knows what friction modifiers. The clutch *never* slipped prior to the rebuild - it had new plates, springs and a NOS clutch centre. After the rebuild/flushing, even under light load running in the clutch could slip. As running in has progressed and I have slowly built up the load & revs, at each oil change the clutch has improved.
Now the engine is run in, once I have done a full gentle 10 miles to warm it through, I can give it the beans and it *mostly* holds. A bump will see it lose grip. I will see how it is now it contains Mr. Bloody Expensive Fabulous Oil.
So my advice is don't use oil which might contain friction modifiers!
Here she is outside Tesco's at Pulborough...
For your amusement, below is the rolling road test of before & after remapping my Gixer K8 after de-cat'ing it and taking into account the Arrow exhausts. I have superimposed the power curve of the SS on the graph - it is that little purple squiggle at the bottom left. How far have things come? ;-)
To make things worse, The Gixer figures are at the back wheel - I think the Ducati figures are at the crank. Wow.
K8-1
K8-2
I don't miss it at all. I think the new owners thought I was mad when I sold it; How little do they know.
I passed the magical 1,600 mile mark about 1 1/2 weeks ago and did the big oil change on Sunday. Having to remove the vertical downpipe & LH Conti is a pain! Ducati could have put in a nice little bend in the downpipe so that the oil could be changed, but that would have been too easy. I ran the motor in with Morris V Twin 20w/50; I bought a 25 litre drum which seemed the most cost effective way of buying it. The motor is now full of £85 worth of AMSOil 20-50; After changing the filter, removing the plugs, removing the crankshaft end plug priming the engine until it squirted out of the crankshaft end inspection hole, I started the engine and I was surprised that it *did* sound different - smoother, quieter. All good so far.
This oil had done about 1,100 miles and I was intensely curious how things were settling in so no one will be surprised that I drained the oil through our flour sifter and then dismantled the oil filter to inspect what had come adrift in the last part of running in.
The good news is there was *absolutely nothing* captured in the sifter from oil from the sump. There was *zip* in the gauze oil filter & magnet. There was *nada* on the oil dipstick magnet - all clean & shiny! There was the thinnest patina on the ring magnet under the filter. I would have shown this but I dropped it in the dust which didn't help.
I was quite excited at this point (I have a quiet life) and dismantled the filter which doesn't take long. There were some small particles but the good news is that is where they stayed.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
All in all, I am very pleased.
One annoyance I will pass on is that I wish I hadn't first run the engine with flushing oil; The 15 minutes off load running may well have cleaned out reassembly flotsam but it also coated the wet clutch in goodness knows what friction modifiers. The clutch *never* slipped prior to the rebuild - it had new plates, springs and a NOS clutch centre. After the rebuild/flushing, even under light load running in the clutch could slip. As running in has progressed and I have slowly built up the load & revs, at each oil change the clutch has improved.
Now the engine is run in, once I have done a full gentle 10 miles to warm it through, I can give it the beans and it *mostly* holds. A bump will see it lose grip. I will see how it is now it contains Mr. Bloody Expensive Fabulous Oil.
So my advice is don't use oil which might contain friction modifiers!
Here she is outside Tesco's at Pulborough...
For your amusement, below is the rolling road test of before & after remapping my Gixer K8 after de-cat'ing it and taking into account the Arrow exhausts. I have superimposed the power curve of the SS on the graph - it is that little purple squiggle at the bottom left. How far have things come? ;-)
To make things worse, The Gixer figures are at the back wheel - I think the Ducati figures are at the crank. Wow.
K8-1
K8-2
I don't miss it at all. I think the new owners thought I was mad when I sold it; How little do they know.
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ducatipaddy
New member
I think if you are a true enthusiast its quite difficult to get enthusiastic about a modern bike because there is nothing to do to them. If you really wanted too you could go to the shed and fiddle all day with an 860/900, polishing this, tidying up that or even stripping and cleaning the carbs or something. I used to limit the amount i used my old Yam because it would eat a back tire in 1200 miles.
I think it takes twice the skill and half the speed to get = enjoyment from a bevel as apposed to an R1...and looking at that graph above..The suzuki might have 100 bhp more but a good rider will ride a bevel quicker on A roads than an average rider on a Suzuki. I remember chasing John from made in Italy many times, him on his black and gold and me on my Yam and truth is he could ride that faster than i could ride the yam on anything but a dead straight road.
Some of you might know the Mickleham bends near Box hill ? there is bloody great speed camera there now but time was John could take his bevel round those bends at 100mph...sod that for a game of soldiers on anything with 2 wheels.
Maybe we are all getting old
it will be Harleys next :-(
I think it takes twice the skill and half the speed to get = enjoyment from a bevel as apposed to an R1...and looking at that graph above..The suzuki might have 100 bhp more but a good rider will ride a bevel quicker on A roads than an average rider on a Suzuki. I remember chasing John from made in Italy many times, him on his black and gold and me on my Yam and truth is he could ride that faster than i could ride the yam on anything but a dead straight road.
Some of you might know the Mickleham bends near Box hill ? there is bloody great speed camera there now but time was John could take his bevel round those bends at 100mph...sod that for a game of soldiers on anything with 2 wheels.
Maybe we are all getting old
it will be Harleys next :-(
I lack the self control to have a bike like that. I would simply ride it to its limits - which are without doubt beyond mine.
Cooee! How exciting! I though the true figure was more like 65BHP at the crank. My figure was a guesstimate and I had always heard that due to the restricted breathing the Duke's were always down on quoted power, unlike Guzzi Le Mans which did what it said on the tin.
The only 'tuning mod' that mine has is that Tony Brancato gave the heads a mild gas flowing about 25 years ago. I didn't want anything extreme for reliability reasons. I have no idea what if anything that means in BHP.
ducatipaddy
New member
Tuning ? don t get me started, its a kind of fetish i have
What i would say is any real increase in power on a bevel will shorten its engine life considerably unless its a milli.
What i would say is any real increase in power on a bevel will shorten its engine life considerably unless its a milli.
Glawster
New member
A few relevent points.
- That's a fine looking bike and I'm gutted I only have the Ladies model.
- It makes the same power as the Suzuki at 4,000 rpm (and probably more below that). So what's the problem?
- I want to know what "A quick call could save me over 84% on", but that bloody filter's blocking my view.
- I'm clearly limited in my reading habits. Which periodical does the "Amber Rose Emporium" advertise in - and what's it fronting?
- That's a fine looking bike and I'm gutted I only have the Ladies model.
- It makes the same power as the Suzuki at 4,000 rpm (and probably more below that). So what's the problem?
- I want to know what "A quick call could save me over 84% on", but that bloody filter's blocking my view.
- I'm clearly limited in my reading habits. Which periodical does the "Amber Rose Emporium" advertise in - and what's it fronting?
Yes, indeed I do. I was at Ryka's when Phil Read turned up on his MV as announced and as expected. The Police were there too, expecting a bit of excitement and Read did not disappoint. He left Ryka's, went round the roundabout, completely ignored the police and let 'em have it. He screamed up towards Leatherhead with a fat catch of police trailing far behind in his wake on their farty BMW's- we were well impressed. We didn't hear him slow down.
Which way does the camera point? It is quite exciting in both directions.
Speak for yourself!!
ducatipaddy
New member
I was there one day when Phil read turned up with his MV and his wife on the back and he dropped it, ( the bike) at walking speed in the car park. can you imagine whooops ? )
No steering lock and wife on back caught him out
The camera is catching people north bound, south bound is single lane now so no chance of ever getting a clear run.
No steering lock and wife on back caught him out
The camera is catching people north bound, south bound is single lane now so no chance of ever getting a clear run.
NeilD
New member
yes the south bound bit was single carriageway for a bit when i used to frequent it and ... i seem to remember the camera was quite near the Rykas end of the bends so still some fun to be had after that on the way home
definately more fun riding a 'slow' bike 'fast' ... trouble with the newer bikes is that they are easy to ride quickly and therefore easy for people to get out of their depth, especially new riders..
definately more fun riding a 'slow' bike 'fast' ... trouble with the newer bikes is that they are easy to ride quickly and therefore easy for people to get out of their depth, especially new riders..
ducatipaddy
New member
Ah yes but now they put a camera van on the second bend so you slow down for the fixed camera...... then wind it back up and they get you, knee down and chin on the Speedo
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Whilst I always wanted an SS when I was younger and couldn't afford one, I had the most fun on my GT. You can always get an SS - the entire production run of GT's and GTS's is less than half of the number of SS's that were made. I can't see the figures for 900GTS's but it is possible there were less 900GTS's made than 750SS's!
So we are both lucky ;-) and they are absolutely fantastic bikes. You'll notice they already have the stiffening bracing under the tank, something you don't get unless you have a racing spec frame for an SS. Make no mistake, these springers are much rarer than those people who turn them into specials think.
It doesn't after 4,000...
That'll be either dinner with Cleggy or package holidays to the Crimea. For me, it'd be the Crimea every time.
You can only get it if you read 'Hello!' magazine like me.
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I think so. The figures neglected to mention the 900GTS - and they vary so much. The DSOTM didn't even have holes drilled for the side badges, it had transfers instead. Some have transfers on the tank instead of badges too - although both mine & Derek's have tank badges. they vary quite a lot and there are some 'unfortunate' colour schemes:-
Here is one in that gem of a factory colour option 'Vomito arancia naturale' with tank & side panel transfers...
and here is a 900GTS with the side panel transfers & tank badges in a rather more attractive colour
I believe some did have the Bosch crank like the Darmah's - mine didn't. Quoting from Page 22 of Mick Walker's Ducati Twins Restorations book, 'The final batch of GTS models was built in 1978 and used Darmah engines with valve spring cylinder heads.'
Here is one in that gem of a factory colour option 'Vomito arancia naturale' with tank & side panel transfers...
and here is a 900GTS with the side panel transfers & tank badges in a rather more attractive colour
I believe some did have the Bosch crank like the Darmah's - mine didn't. Quoting from Page 22 of Mick Walker's Ducati Twins Restorations book, 'The final batch of GTS models was built in 1978 and used Darmah engines with valve spring cylinder heads.'
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I wondered who would notice 
Proper downpipes Request!
I have never ending problems getting my downtubes on after changing the oil without damaging the (very fine 1mm pitch) exhaust threads. The last attempt resulted in the pipes not locating correctly and it started popping on the overrun.
Enough of that! I have stuck on my 2 into 1 Conti system which is a beautiful easy perfect fit - but doesn't look or sound as good.
Decide for yourself!
Look! No pipe!
... and the pipe itself...
I'd really like a standard set of downtubes and I don't mind if they are manky - I can get them re-chromed.
My understanding is they should be stamped with the following for an SS:-
077584023 L.H. EXHAUST HEADER (Vertical)
077584028 R.H. EXHAUST HEADER (Horizontal)
Paddy knows about this (thanks!) and is keeping his eye out too.
I have never ending problems getting my downtubes on after changing the oil without damaging the (very fine 1mm pitch) exhaust threads. The last attempt resulted in the pipes not locating correctly and it started popping on the overrun.
Enough of that! I have stuck on my 2 into 1 Conti system which is a beautiful easy perfect fit - but doesn't look or sound as good.
Decide for yourself!
Look! No pipe!
... and the pipe itself...
I'd really like a standard set of downtubes and I don't mind if they are manky - I can get them re-chromed.
My understanding is they should be stamped with the following for an SS:-
077584023 L.H. EXHAUST HEADER (Vertical)
077584028 R.H. EXHAUST HEADER (Horizontal)
Paddy knows about this (thanks!) and is keeping his eye out too.
ducatipaddy
New member
Yes it seems the problem is the SS pipes are very light and single skinned. the Darmah are the same but twin skinned and heavier, the S2 are completely different as are the MHR which tuck in closer to the engine to miss the fairing. Good SS down pipes could be a problem, i did ask about but everyone said if they had a set they would not part with them.
ducatipaddy
New member
Mine is ...eh......coming alone in the design stage .lol NCR tank, Imola seat at this stage.... frame is now less 11 brackets i dont need and looks a bit tidier. Wheels are done, forks stanchions at the chromers , found a new pair of dial a rides as well.
I finished the engine but now i have started building another in my head which might replace the one i have.
I finished the engine but now i have started building another in my head which might replace the one i have.
Looking good! Much better/cleaner without the extraneous brackets.
What colour frame is is that too far ahead - i.e., do you have a scheme for it yet? Like the seat unit.
What colour frame is is that too far ahead - i.e., do you have a scheme for it yet? Like the seat unit.
One of my pipes is marked 0803.84.020 which apparently is an MHR vertical header.
I do have a manky unmarked horizontal pipe which would be fine with a re-chrome; I just did a dry run on the GTS with the MHR vertical pipe & manky horizontal & the fit was fine; Looks to me that the offending and offensive part was the horizontal header I was using.
I'd like to get hold of a proper 077584028 R.H. Exhaust Header and ideally I'd also have the correct 077584023 L.H. Exhaust Header however I can live with the MHR one. In the meantime I might have the well fitting horizontal header re-chromed.
ducatipaddy
New member
It will be Ducati Yellow with a white number board and stripes etc a twist on the modern SP models. Frame was going to be satin black but Tony thinks its a sod to do because as you clean it over time if just goes back to gloss. Might have to settle for glossblack but would rather find a satin black that you can polish and it stays satin black.